Ipschnug Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Hey all, I have wanted to get into forging for quite some time. I recently came across a Hay Budden anvil in decent shape with the obvious exception that it is broken at the waist. The base was long gone, so I am left trying to put this anvil back into service without it. What are my best options to mount this to a stump durably? I have Oxy Acetylene and a MIG welder, but I wonder if just welding it to a mounting plate is the best idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Do you have the capability of doing a full penetration weld at the waist to a large chunk of steel? Keeping the top cool of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Gvien that you will require some sort of stand anyway, why not simply make a timber stand to "craddle" the anvil from hardy hole to horn step (heavy planking on end). A couple or so lugs fixed the side of the anvil to ensure it stays put and doesn't rock, Least effort for a useable result! If you have the skills and equipment you could completely refurbish it, but I would consider either attempting it or as a viable option. Shame to see an anvil in such a condition! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ipschnug Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 20 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: Do you have the capability of doing a full penetration weld at the waist to a large chunk of steel? Keeping the top cool of course. Not with my current setup, I would probably need a big Stick machine to do that. I'm not sure how I would keep the top cool with all that heat, other than welding in a bucket of water. 14 minutes ago, Smoggy said: Gvien that you will require some sort of stand anyway, why not simply make a timber stand to "craddle" the anvil from hardy hole to horn step (heavy planking on end). A couple or so lugs fixed the side of the anvil to ensure it stays put and doesn't rock, Least effort for a useable result! If you have the skills and equipment you could completely refurbish it, but I would consider either attempting it or as a viable option. Shame to see an anvil in such a condition! That's an idea, I also considered drilling and tapping the bottom to bolt it down from underneath. Any drawbacks to that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Another option would be to use plates of steel (3/8 inch or thicker) on both sides in such a way that they clamp it in place. If the broken part of the waist was resting on a solid wooden block that is just a hair narrower than the waist, you could run bolts all the way through the wooden block and the 2 steel plates. Then just tighten those bolts up good and solid. After that your block could be mounted to nearly anything. You'd need to run the plates a fair way up the sides of the anvil and make sure they are *really* tight so that the anvil can't rock loose while in use. If the plates were long enough you could run extra bolts through under the horn and heel near the waist for extra clamping power and stability too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Drilling and tapping shouldn't be a problem, you would want to opt for a heavy stud and thread, have you got any big taps available? Bolting through as Buzzkill has eluded would be easier as you can use proprietary threaded bolt/nut. Which ever way you chose, you'll no doubt need to clean up the base as I doubt (the photo's don't show) it's a nice level, clean break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 My "broken waist" HB had bolts through 2 holes a couple inches up from the broken point when I got it. Unfortunately someone had also welded angle steel to the bolts and to the anvil itself. I don't know for sure how much this compromised the anvil if at all, but I really wish that had not been done. When I made a flatter in the hardy hole the "ring" didn't sound right to me - almost like 2 pieces of steel touching each other rather than one solid piece. Again I don't know if that had anything to do with the welding or not, but I'd avoid welding on the anvil at all unless you really know your stuff there and even then if you have another option I'd try it first. If you try things that you know won't damage the anvil first, you can always move on to other things later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 The body of the HB is wrought iron, so if you decide to drill and tap it to secure it with big bolts, it should be easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesenish Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 what about justngrinding the broken bottom part flat and just mount it to a stump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ipschnug Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 4 hours ago, Smoggy said: Drilling and tapping shouldn't be a problem, you would want to opt for a heavy stud and thread, have you got any big taps available? Bolting through as Buzzkill has eluded would be easier as you can use proprietary threaded bolt/nut. Which ever way you chose, you'll no doubt need to clean up the base as I doubt (the photo's don't show) it's a nice level, clean break. Yeah, there was a poor attempt by someone to weld it back to the base, so I'd have to grind all of that off. 4 hours ago, Buzzkill said: My "broken waist" HB had bolts through 2 holes a couple inches up from the broken point when I got it. Unfortunately someone had also welded angle steel to the bolts and to the anvil itself. I don't know for sure how much this compromised the anvil if at all, but I really wish that had not been done. When I made a flatter in the hardy hole the "ring" didn't sound right to me - almost like 2 pieces of steel touching each other rather than one solid piece. Again I don't know if that had anything to do with the welding or not, but I'd avoid welding on the anvil at all unless you really know your stuff there and even then if you have another option I'd try it first. If you try things that you know won't damage the anvil first, you can always move on to other things later. Yeah, mine has like what look to be broken bolts in the side from a prior attempt to fix it. Fortunately, this anvil still has a nice ring across the whole top 23 minutes ago, Eyesenish said: what about justngrinding the broken bottom part flat and just mount it to a stump? Without all the weight and wide footprint that the base gave it, I think it would wobble all over the place, and there is nowhere to attach a chain/nail/strap to hold it to the stump. I'm thinking bolting from the bottom to a ~1/2" plate, and then lag screwing that down to the stump. At least that way I don't have to worry about screwing up the temper of the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 The plate on the bottom and lag screwing that to a stump may be the simplest. The thicker and heavier the plate, the better. Maybe give it a try and if it doesn't work, move to plan B (whatever that might be). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfudd Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Welding could be done by a competent welder but it would be a slow process. The runs would have to be short and allowed to cool completely before doing the next run. Each run would have to be fairly short, no more than a few inches. I doubt that the heat from the welding would penetrate to the top plate but if you also cool each short run in water before starting the next run there would be no real harm done. I'd try to find a good sized chunk of mild steel as wide as the anvil to weld it to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergy Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I would get the base machined flat and then drill it and tap it and put two or three large (1") studs into it I would then find some UC and weld a base plate and top plate to the UC after working out what height you want it then the anvil can be bolted to the UC and the UC to the floor and then tool holders can be welded to the UC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 UC? Oh say can UC? Oh, say can U say what UC means? Inquiring minds want to know, you see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergy Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Universal column thicker and heavyer than universal beam to get some mass under the anvil also normally found easy at the scrappy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Ah-ha! I learned something today! Here in the the US, we refer to them in drawings as either Standard, Wide Flange or Narrow Flange Beam, all commonly refered to as "I" beams. Not the UK practice of Universal Column or Universal Beam. Two nations separated by a common language! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 As several brands of good anvils were arc welded at the waist; I think such a nice top deserves to be "rescued". As the part being welded is probably not high carbon---looks to have a face plate welded on so the body would be low C, you don't need to weld it slowly; you just need to keep the face cool; so turn it upside down in a container of water to cover the face plate by an inch of two and go to town! (space the face an inch of so off the bottom of the container too to get circulation.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ipschnug Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 9 hours ago, fergy said: I would get the base machined flat and then drill it and tap it and put two or three large (1") studs into it I would then find some UC and weld a base plate and top plate to the UC after working out what height you want it then the anvil can be bolted to the UC and the UC to the floor and then tool holders can be welded to the UC That would sure be a beast of a mount! If I can come by some cheap I-beam I might try that. 36 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: As several brands of good anvils were arc welded at the waist; I think such a nice top deserves to be "rescued". As the part being welded is probably not high carbon---looks to have a face plate welded on so the body would be low C, you don't need to weld it slowly; you just need to keep the face cool; so turn it upside down in a container of water to cover the face plate by an inch of two and go to town! (space the face an inch of so off the bottom of the container too to get circulation.) If I had the base, I would definitely try to make it whole again. My Dad used to be a weldor on the railroad, so he could probably stick weld the thing blind folded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Find a place that has a burning table for heavy stock and get a scrap piece. It doesn't need to look like a anvil base---just needs to serve as one. Your Father probably can handle the entire task without breaking a sweat---may know where to source heavy scrap too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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