Sam Salvati Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 WHAT A COOL STEEL! made a small cape style chisel today from it for marking sword tangs for a friend of mine, I was pretty skeptical about "heat it up to low yellow, let cool and use" but sure enough DANG! i added the edge wile it was hot with the bench grinder(which would not even scratch it afterwards) then got it up nice and even to a low yellow and let it cool, once cool i dressed the edge, tried with a file = NOPE, bench grinder = JUST BARELY, good thing i sharpened it first! Put a nice finish on the edge with the old stone grinder, and was SHAVING steel slivers off of my steel table as if it were wood. I LOVE H13, the very coolest steel i have ever seen and used yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjohnbarleycorn Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 sounds good, where did you get your stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 The best thing about H-13 is that the tempering tempetures get well into 900 F. so for punches and stuff that is likely to get hot it still works the second time. S-7 is similar but wont handle quite as much heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbeard Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Ive also made some punches and drifts from h13- real nice steel just remember to work it yellow and dont quench- it goes very hard and brittle if you quench, like you said Sam aircool and thats it! Great stuff! Bb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnW Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 So Sam, I guess you were handling the h13 with your tongs while grinding. How hot was it anyway? Did you just take it straight out of the forge and start grinding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stretch Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 The best thing about H-13 is that the tempering tempetures get well into 900 F. so for punches and stuff that is likely to get hot it still works the second time. S-7 is similar but wont handle quite as much heat. H13 is tempered at about 1150 degrees which is a very dull red so it can be taken up to a dull red before the temper comes out. i didn't know you could take it to a yellow and do the same thing, a lot easier than trying to take it to the exact temp required and quenching it. i have quite a bit so will try up to a yellow and let it cool. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRobb Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Thanks for the tip AM. I need to find some also. Show us some pics on what you make with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primtechsmith Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 can I soften up the end I want to hit? I don't want a chisel hard from end to end....to a hammer hardened all the way from face to face. Bare with me..........if it ain't cold or hot roll I have no idea....LOL. Even then its hit and miss! Peyton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 I think due to the air hardening properties Peyton, a nice chinese chiseling hammer would be best to use with these. They really don't get high up there Rockwell hardness wise though, only about lower 50s so most smithing tools will work fine. When hardened they are much softer than the anvil face, and softer than most hammers. I got mine from the local blacksmith supply, had a couple small lengths of H13 and S7. JohnW, yup that is exactly what i did. After it cooled down, i went to try and grind it, barely any sparks even came off with quite a bit of pressure against my bench grinder (8 inch 36 grit). I took it up to a nice red color then it ground just fine, held tightly in the proper size tongs. With the air cool there is not much stress, so grind it to final shape and sharep edge with not too many worries about cracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Jim Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Glad to hear the favorable report. I picked up a few pieces last week, and might pick up more later. I've been making tools out of coil spring, but figured this would be fun to try. Now I just need to figure out what tools I need to make from it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 Center punch, straight punch are just a few that this steel would be great for! I almost sound like a steel sales rep here:D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcraigl Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 slot and slit punches for making hammer eyes!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Peyton the critical temp for H-13 is 1850 F I belive with out going out to the shop to look at my heat treating info. If air cooled from just nonmagnetic it will not be harder than your hammer. Make your tool slow cool as best you can, if back of tool is hard heat back of tool to nonmagnetic. let air cool then heat working end to 1850 (I can see starting to glow in my gas forge in lighted shop or use temp. stick) then let this end air cool. some tools you can do both at the same time, by bringing short tool working end up to heat the hammer end is up to a lower heat that works out well. It looks like you are in a picturer with Tom Clark I think what He does is make the tool bring to heat, bury in vermiculite with only the working tip exposed to air that way the tip cools faster and is hard and the hammer end cools slow enough to be softer. Stretch you are right I under stated how high you can temper H-13 which only makes the point I was trying to say more true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrynjr Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I don't have a local source for tool steel and having not been smithing for the past 2 years hadn't looked into it too hard. I was googling for steel suppliers the other day and found several but wasn't sure what I should really be getting. I'm looking at making hardies, chisels, flatters, butchers, hammers, etc. Old Cedar Forge were I've taken all my classes is offering a tooling course in March but that is a kid weekend for me so I'll have to hope for one on an available weekend in the fall. Mr. C. takes his Harley cross country every summer and offers no courses during that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Jim Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Hmmm.... I was thinking about making a slot punch the other day.... Maybe I'll do that with one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stretch Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Peyton the critical temp for H-13 is 1850 F I belive with out going out to the shop to look at my heat treating info. If air cooled from just nonmagnetic it will not be harder than your hammer. Make your tool slow cool as best you can, if back of tool is hard heat back of tool to nonmagnetic. let air cool then heat working end to 1850 (I can see starting to glow in my gas forge in lighted shop or use temp. stick) then let this end air cool. some tools you can do both at the same time, by bringing short tool working end up to heat the hammer end is up to a lower heat that works out well. It looks like you are in a picturer with Tom Clark I think what He does is make the tool bring to heat, bury in vermiculite with only the working tip exposed to air that way the tip cools faster and is hard and the hammer end cools slow enough to be softer. Stretch you are right I under stated how high you can temper H-13 which only makes the point I was trying to say more true. I love H13 and with this easier way to harden I am going to make more tools now. i have never taken a punch or hot cut to a red so am quite safe in not taking the temper out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofi Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 ALL the cutting ,punching ,sliting, drifting tools i forge are from H-13 you my see them in the galery the H-13 IS MORE heat withstanding then the S-1 and S-7 BUT the B S E S T of them ALL is M-4 HOFI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 While in the shop today I picked up my heat treating info. for H-13 the tempering curve for air hardened from 1850 F is at 52.5 Rockwell untill 780 then it gets harder untill 900 (R 54) it comes back down to R 52.5 at about 980 and hardness drops form there, 1040 is about R50 1100 is about R45 1150 R40 1170 R35 This information is form a graff produced by Latrobe that I got with a bunch of H-13 in 1990. I doubt that the material has changed in that time, so I would not temper at 1150 but if it gets to 1000 or something I probably wouldn't know the difference. When I have paid for expensive tool steel in the past I try to get heat treament informaton from the seller. They should want us to succede as then we will want more of their steel so this is a win win situation. I never tried the M-4, Mr. Hoffi why is it that you don't use it for your tools if it is the best? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofi Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Hello Metal M I Used The M-4 When I Could Get It .to Day No One Imports This Steel Any More If A Steel Seller Will Import It Again I''ll Use It. I Have At My School Cutting Tools That I Forged I8 Years Ago Still Going Strong. Hofi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Hofi; I'm going to ask around at EMRTC to see if they have any used tank penetrators for making a drift from---I know they scattered a lot of U238 around out in the test area so perhaps I'll luck out. They get fussy about us going out in the desert and hunting on our own in the test range though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofi Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 THOMAS- I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH U238.IKNOW THAT THE SPECIFIC GRAVITY IS HIGHER AND THERFORE IT WILL WITHSTAND MORE HEAT AND FOR A LONGER TIME. AND I DO NOT KNOW IF IT IS BRITLE OR WHOT IS THE NATUERAL HRC IF U CAN GRIND IT WITH A BELT GRINDER OR USE THE LATH TO TURN WITH THE VIDIA-TUNGSTEN BAKED CARBIDE TIPS. I USE THE TUNGSTEN TANK PENETRATOR THAT I GET FROM MY SOLDIER-STUDENTS THAT ARE COLECTING THEM IN THE TRAINING FIELDES. THE TUNGSTEN IS HRC41 AND U CAN GRIND AND TURN ON THE LATH. IF U FINED THE U238 LET ME KNOW THE RASULTHAPPY NEW YEAR HOFI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 No I don't want U238! But if it's still out there perhaps some of the old school tank penetrators may be too. U238 is pyrophoric---likes to burn with toxic fumes---heavy metal poisoning as well as small ammounts of radiation. I seem to remember machinists saying it was hard and brittle Now to make a very heavy very small hammer head with it enclosed in another metal might work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete46 Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Thomas are ya'll talk'n about used SABO cores? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torin Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Hofi; I'm going to ask around at EMRTC to see if they have any used tank penetrators for making a drift from---I know they scattered a lot of U238 around out in the test area so perhaps I'll luck out. They get fussy about us going out in the desert and hunting on our own in the test range though. Hey, if you find any, I'd be interested in one. I managed to get my hand on about a 3-4 ounce sample of DU, but I'm looking for something larger to go with my 4# chunk of tungsten alloy. And yeah, the dust is nasty, so no grinding or cutting without proper protection. The radiation is just alpha, so as long as you don't eat it or breath it, your skin stops it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habu68 Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Ejector Pins - Plastixs.com A source for H13 is the plastic injection molding business, they use H13 ejector pins in their molds to push the parts out of the cavities. The pins are available in hardened and annealed and nitrated. My kid brother is a tool and die maker and keeps a stock of pins from .004" to 2.500" They make great punches right out of the box. he also has a 3648 lb H13 mold sitting in the shop that he says I can have for an anvil if I can figure out how to get it out of the truck when I get it home.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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