Aloha from Hawaii!

[JamesD]

Aloha all!

My name is James Drescher, and I am a Nursing student living on the Big Island of Hawaii (specifically Hilo  ). For the past couple months, I've been doing loads of research on blacksmithing. I've always wanted to craft something with my bare hands, and after some searching found blacksmithing! I'm curious if there are any IFI members who are also living in Hawaii?

In regards to my progress in getting started, I have a Peddinghaus Swedish pattern (1000g) cross pein hammer, some hot rolled varities of steel to practice some of the basic blacksmithing techniques, but I am in need of a forge and an anvil. I have a 16 inch piece of RR track, but would prefer a larger work surface to hammer on. I also am planning to order a cast iron forge from a blacksmith named Klaus (lives in Arizona, I believe?). Anyone familiar with his work? The firepot and assembly look great ( it includes a clinker breaker and dump ash gate). Since I live in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, coal is nearly nonexistent here, and so I had to order some from eBay! I have approximately 100 lbs so far. I like the idea of working with coal, though I hope I don't smoke up the neighborhood!  

Regarding my research, I've read books like " The Complete Modern Blacksmith, " and "Backyard Blacksmith" by Lorelei Sims. I found both books very informative, and will try out the basic techniques mentioned within them! Thank you very much for reading this. Hopefully, I can meet any local blacksmiths in my area. I am eager to learn about this great craft!!!! 

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard James, glad to have you. I just told Deb, my spousal unit about your desire to make things with your BARE hands . . . blacksmithing. She's been laughing steady except for the odd comment for several minutes now. ! ! !

Please don't make me TELL you why she's laughing or BOY do we have some learning to do.

Thanks James I love a good laugh and we understand what you meant, it's just a fun turn of phrase.

About setting up with a coal forge. Why? Charcoal is a perfectly effective solid forge fuel ad isn't going to cost stupid much money to ship to the island. I live in Alaska and understand how shipping about doubles the price of most stuff. Before you order things like forges do some reading here and check out all the different ways to make solid fuel forges. Just because some guy selling forges SAYS they're "traditional" and NO real blacksmith would use something else doesn't mean . . . Wait a second, you wouldn't want to buy my interest in a bridge here in Alaska would you?

Unless you have cash to burn reserve shipping for things you can't get or make there say an anvil and or leg vise. Once you've been at it a little while you don't need to buy hammers and certainly not tongs, punches and chisels are first session projects.

A length of rail makes a perfectly serviceable anvil, horns are over rated but CAN be handy. However Hilo has shipping so there are machines and vehicles used to move HEAVY things. A worn or broken fork lift tine makes an excellent anvil as does a piece of shafting or my favorite broken axle stood on end flange up.

It's a common beginner's misconception that an anvil has to be long wide and or flat. You really only need a face a little larger than the hammer face and straightening is easily done on a wood block with a wooden mallet. A length of 3"-4" round or sq. shaft on end at the correct height for you is a truly outstanding anvil. What makes them efficient is the depth of rebound and that's how much steel is under the hammer at impact.

Gotta go, we'll talk more.

Frosty the Lucky.

 

[Frosty]

test

I give you a 97, you forgot to capitalize.

Frosty the Lucky.

[ARKtest]

Welcome James. To add to Frosty's always knowledgeable input, some people start off with large sledge heads set into a stump as their anvil. My first forge was a brake drum burning green wood andand/or hardwood charcoal, blown by a inflatable mattress pump (manual). I eventually moved up to coal (soft and then hard) because I lived in Virginia and my mentor had two tons shipped to his house at one point.

 

I'd suggest looking around forfor a junked brake rotor and the deck from a push mower that was tossed. You could drill and bolt them together if you don't have a welder. You could set it up on cinder bricks for the time being. You would then just need to find a tuyere and bellows. A black steel pipe (not galvanized) that can fit through the hole but will catch if you put an endcap on it works great. I just drilled holes in the cap. I occasionally (once a month) had to drill out the holes due to clinkers. Some flexible ducting hose can help attach what ever blower you get to a T joint tuyere. There are plenty of YouTube videos for brake drum forges.

 

There are also the side blast forges. Most cheap ones made from old grills. The options are endless, and inevitably cheaper. I am a firm believer that being a blacksmith has only perpetuated my frugal behavior. 

[JamesD]

A pleasure to meet you, Frosty! Thank you very much for the wisdom you have offered me. I would like to take some time to comment on a few things you said. First, after doing research on the various fuel sources available for forging, I decided to go with coal. Some of my reasonings:

-According to many individuals (both on youtube and here on IFI), coal seems to 'last' longer than conventional charcoal. I've read about individuals claiming that you use as much as 40-50% more charcoal compared to coal in a given period of time (could be due to improper fire tending, but I cannot be sure. Perhaps, you could shed some light on why people believe this.)

-Many eBayers offer free expedited shipping on boxes of coal (still a bit more expensive than charcoal, but not too much more).

- I believe learning how to tend to a coal fire would be very beneficial in developing my abilities as a fledgling metalworker .

-I read that controlling the heat of a coal fire is easier than a propane fire (please correct me if this is not so.)

Please feel free to comment, or correct any misunderstandings I may have on fuel sources. Personally, I wouldn't mind trying a propane forge ,but it seemed alittle more technical to build and use properly, so I thought coal may be easier for me. I would PREFER something that burns cleaner like propane (because I'm conscious of the environment, but funds keep me from doing so). Maybe I could use charcoal to supplement my coal fire? I've read here on IFI that some smiths use both coal/coke and charcoal!

I have done alot of thinking and digging through forums into the types of forges that I could use for blacksmithing. Originally, I wanted to build a simple brake drum forge, but ran into a major issue. My brake drum forge has a 3" hole, and nobody here sells 3" pipe fittings for my duck pot.  I looked online, and there are options, but shipping is crazy! So, I thought that buying a pre-made forge with a clinker breaker and ash gate would be my best option.

I spotted what looks like a nice post vice on eBay. I could send you the link to it if you would like to check it out! About an anvil....I will stick to the RR piece for now. Question! Should I flatten the top of the rail with a grinder? It is slightly rounded, and I thought it may affect what I'm working on. I'm guessing dressing the edges of the track is essential too.

Thanks again! I will definitely search around IFI and the web some more before committing to anything.

 

Thank you very much for your input! Yes, I was considering a brake drum forge at one point. Sadly, pipe suppliers here do not have anything bigger than 2"! And, its all galvanized! I have a bathroom fan that I picked up cheap from Home Depot that may serve as my blower.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Do not grind the top of the rail flat, it will work fine as is.

I would go with wood for fuel, and it doesn't have to be charcoal first. Just toss chunks of wood on the fire, and it will be coals in plenty of time. Why wood? It is available for free from many sources IE; construction waste, pallets, downed trees,etc... Plus it doesn't have the odiferous smoke coal does, wood smells like a campfire.

Use a brake rotor, not a drum. They also usually have smaller hub holes. These can be found for free from many sources.

To be a good smith you need to become a good scrounger, unless you have money to burn.

Stand the rail on end to put all of the mass underneath the hammer blows. A plate can be welded onto the end to give a bigger surface area. 

Forklift tines make excellent anvils, and post vises.

Look for a local scrapyard that sells to the public for anvils, and materials.

See if a community college has night welding courses, if so, sign up for one. Welding is a good skill to have when smithing, plus taking a class gives you access to welding equipment.

 

Aloha from Southern NV

Edited July 31, 2015 by BIGGUNDOCTOR

[ARKtest]

If you "clay" the edges to create a seal you might be able to set the brake drum onto of some cinder brick, using the hollow portions as a big, fire proof, square tube. Plus built in support. Drill a hole in the side and you could attach your fan with practically anything because it'd be away from the heat. You'd just have to make sure the seams are sealed. Fire cement for the drum to brick joint should do. Shoot you could use actual clay for brick to brick joints, or mortis.

[Frosty]

Charcoal is free if you make your own and bamboo grows FAST. Bigguns is right, take a college extension welding class and build a forge as the class project. Easy Peasy and the instructor will help you.

The hub hole diameter in a brake drum, Rotor (better choice) doesn't matter one bit. Simply cut a piece of steel and drop it in the hollow, Hole GONE! Now make one that fits.

No need using plumbing pipe. I like exhaust pipe, it comes in lots of sizes from Dump truck 5"+ dia. down to motor scooter 1"?. 3" makes a nice vertical section connecting to the air grate. Make it about 8"-10" long. Then make a 2" dia. hole in it about 4"-5" from the air grate. I use a hole saw and a hand drill, easy peasy. Now just weld a short piece of 2" x 6" pipe to the hole and you have a "T" shaped tuyere. Connecting it to the air grate is the ONLY challenge, a little imaginative saber saw work and you can have tabs and screw/bolt it to the air grate but if you're taking that welding class just buzz it on.

Now you have a tuyere (air blast supply pipes) an air grate. (The plate blocking the hub hole in the rotor/drum) The plate needs a hole or two so air can get to your fire. don't get carried away 3-4 1/2" holes is more than enough and it's easy to drill more if you wish. It's also easy to just block a few if it's too much.

One little thing, the bottom of the vertical section is wide open! This is my favorite part, next to how easy the thing is to build. You want an ash dump so go to the truck supply you talked the exhaust pipe drops out of. (Oh NO don't buy the exhaust pipe! talk to the guys at a truck shop and see if they have any drops, short sections trimmed on stock on a job. It's usually headed for the scrap bin and folk LIKE helping blacksmiths you know.

Oh yeah, the ash dump say your vertical section is 3" hit the supply and buy a 3" exhaust flap cap. You know those thing you see on top of exhaust pipes on semis. Add a little extra weight to the counter balance and clamp it to your tuyere with the counter weight facing here you're going to stand so you can reach under the forge with tongs, hammer, piece of wood, etc. and flip the ash dump open if it gets full.

Were we in my shop I could build all this faster than I can write directions. did I say it's EASY?

I couldn't find a good pic so here's a drawing with a silly long counter weight arm and I show it integral to the pipe but they actually just clamp on. It's easier than it looks.

Frosty The Lucky.

[JamesD]

Thanks for the helpful tips everyone! And thanks for giving me a detailed description on how to build a brake "rotor" forge, Frosty! Luckily, my brother and I just bought a Mig/Wire feed welder a few days ago, so I can do some practice welds and get going on this forge! I will do research on how to make my own charcoal, and yes, there is ALOT of bamboo here in Hawaii hehe. Thanks again! I'll update or make a new topic when I get things rolling!

 

Please do not quote entire posts when not needed.  Most places still have to pay for bandwidth, and doing so increases their cost to view IFI greatly

[Frosty]

Take a look at the "charcoal retort" threads. Lots of guys here burn charcoal and some have darned sophisticated retorts for making their charcoal. When I say sophisticated I don't mean complicated. The simpler a device is that works well is the more gooder ones.

Frosty The Lucky.

[ARKtest]

Nice suggestion with the exhaust pipe frosty, I never thought of that.

[ThomasPowers]

Yes there have been/are other hobby smiths in Hawaii you might search around for them a bit.  Hard for me to remember which forums they were on since I've been online since the rec.crafts.metalworking days on a monochrome monitor and a slow dial up modem...

How about coconut husk charcoal?  The idea is to find a "waste" product you can upcycle.  As for an anvil I have a sneaky suspicion that Hawaii might have some ship repair facilities that would have the odd large chunk of steel...

[Charles R. Stevens]

I would suggest avoiding a brake drum. Especialy if you may be burning charcoal. Look at Glenn's "55 forge" series the 55 sideblast particularly. Botom blast and coal work ok, but not very effecent with charcoal, wile side blast works just fine either way (diferent fire managment stratagies tho). And they are easy to build.