Peen hawk (How long?)

[Halbrust]

I started forging my first ever ball peen tomahawk. Worked about two hours and didn't do much more than flatten the hammer head and draw it out a quarter inch.

I was using an old ball peen hemmer from the thrift store, so I have no idea what steel. Charcoal forge, and an 8lb straight peen hammer. My hammering skills are still rough and developing, but I thought I'd make more progress than I did.

For those of you who know what you're doing, and have made a few of these: How long does it take you to get it hammered into shape? 

[Charles R. Stevens]

A wile, lol. If your hammer control isnt the best one might back up and try a lighter hammer... 

I one hand 6-14# hammers occasinaly and I grab a 4# often but I do the majority of my (non horseshoe) forging with 3# hammers. More mass is good for penitration (moving the steel inside the stock) but if you can't accelerate it from fully overhead and acceratly smake the steel get a lighter hammer. The guys that regularly use big hammers have arms as big as my legs and can crack eggs with them, but control, spead then mass....

[Nobody Special]

With an 8 lb hammer, a long while. My arms get tired. I save 8-12 lb-ers for strikers, and for upsetting big stock. Same as a lot of things, first one took me hours and hours. Later ones went a lot faster, and a lot prettier.

[MRobb]

And make sure you are forging at the right temperature. Don't let it get cool.  Keep it hot.

[chichi]

Halbrust,

If you are fairly new to the sport and using charcoal, you may not be getting a good heat. At what color do you remove the steel and how much time between heats? I bet there are guys who have good coal forges that could make that much progress in 30 min. Dont be discouraged, I think it took me nearly a day to make my first set of tongs.

I was never impressed with the heat output of charcoal (but you have to use what is available).I base this on observation because I use coal or coke and have never worked with charcoal. More heat will speed up the process even if you dont have great hammer control.

Good luck.

[Halbrust]

I was taking it to a bright red. Almost orange. Hit it around 6 times on each side before it was back in the fire. 

My hammer placement isn't too bad. I was quite happy with it this session. I just tired quickly. I'm strong, but don't. Have the time at the anvil to build up the endurance to hammer for long. 

[Nobody Special]

Ooh. Far too cold. Go for light orange (when viewed in sufficient shade, color varies in daylight). You'll be a lot happier, and it will stay warm longer. When it's red, don't strike except for light blows to clean up (with a smaller hammer). When it's black, don't bother, with high carbon and lack of experience you're just more likely to crack it. Good luck!

[Charles R. Stevens]

got to agree with NS, to cold. Back in the forge at brite red. 

A proper charchoal fire will burn up steel just as happaly as charcoal. 

Once you get down to 1/4" start holding the steel a fraction of an inch off the anvil (stays hot longer). 

[Quarry Dog]

Don't be afraid to try a smaller hammer, especially just starting out.  Starting with a big hammer is a good path toward repetitive stress injuries.

  8# is a light striking hammer for me.  20# is for when I'm dead serious and won't be at it long.  I won't use either one handed.  The biggest one I use for general forging is a 4#ish ”drawing" hammer that I made by grinding and polishing a 1.5" radius straight pein on one end of an engineer's sledge, and that thing really moves some metal as long as I keep a good heat.  My only problem is that I'm only good for about a half hour with it.  I have a 2.5# that I last better with , and I'm getting where I can knock around 1.5" shaft pretty well with that, and I'm better at isolating masses with it for some reason.  I'm sure some of these weights will change as I get more as the years go by, hopefully for the better and faster movement of metal, but these are what I'm comfortable with.

  For very light work requiring a lot of fast light blows and little penetration, like bickering and planishing, there is this dinky little 1 pound cross peen I'm fond of that nobody else in the shop seems to want to have anything to do with.  The first hammer I make will just like it, or maybe have a broader face.

  All of this said, if 8# works for you, and you don't fatigue overly fast from it, or feel strained at the end of the day (big difference between bone sore and muscle sore), keep on truckin'.

  Hope all this helps.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Quarry Dog
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[Halbrust]

Thanks guys!

I'm working alongside a much more experienced smith. But he is a very hands off teacher. I will take all your suggestions to heart next weekend when I get back to the forge.

[Charles R. Stevens]

One thing with any hammer, but especialy one handing a big one, when lifting it tilt the head up so the handle is vertical (you probbaly already know this but some one new reading this thread may not) this reduces the leverage the head has on your arm, lift it strait up till your arm is strait up and let her fall, guiding it and adding speed to it on the way down. Bringing the handle tord vertical on the way down in such a way that it reches bertical on impact (imparts a bit of a snap) this works with smaller hammers as well, realy gets hot meatal to move. Practice by placing an "X" over the sweet spot (center of the anvils waist) and moving the steel under the hammer. A peice of ply wood will protect the anvil wile you practis. 

[Frosty]

High orange, almost yellow heat and a little soak time will let you move the metal and not damage it. Back in the fire at bright red.

As your hammer control improves learn to snap it into the work like a spin casting rod, you can't shove it hard enough to make a difference forging except for the damage you'll do your elbow and shoulder. It isn't about strength it's about control. Learn control with a hammer that's easy to control, once you've developed good hammer skills, changing weight or type is only a matter of adjusting NOT learning a new skill. It's an important difference and will flatten your learning curve.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Chris john]

Hi Halbrust  a lot of great answers here but one i cant find the size of the ball pien you are hammering .

face size one inch ,inch and a quarter , inch and half , inch  three quarters , Size does make a big differents

Chris

[Halbrust]

Good question Chris. I didn't measure it before i started, but I bet I can figure it out by measuring where it's at now.

[Frosty]

Weigh them.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Halbrust]

24oz

Face was probably one inch. My estimates put it at 1.1

[Charles R. Stevens]

24 oz is a good weight for a hawk, top of the usable weight as a wepon but heaxy enugh to bite wood 

[Halbrust]

Got my second session working on this over the weekend.

It is really starting to take shape. Slow process, and I still have a long way to go. But it no longer just looks like a deformed hammer.

I have a question for the next time I get to the forge: I know that generally when drawing you want to work from the end back, from the blade toward the eye in this case.

Because I want a significant beard, I was thinking about concentrating near the eye. Pinching the metal to thickness, leaving a bulk to draw down for the beard. Is this a bad idea for any reason?

[LastRonin]

No pics?!! 

[Frosty]

If I can't see it it didn't happen.  

Frosty The Lucky.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Dont get to caried away, 45ing the corners then flaten some, so as to make using the pein easer. What works for me untile Iv'e reduced the thicknes to about 1/2" is to just alternate 45ing the ends

[Charles R. Stevens]

Otherwise it will fishmouth, yeas usyaly we go ahead and form a blunt wedge, but on somthing like this yiu can sneek up on it. Knock the corners back, then forge down a bit, heat, repeat.