Catalan Smelting Furnace 2015

[DanielC]

Check out these:

 

and

 

[Nobody Special]

Pretty pretty. I've just started my charcoal for this year's go round again. After watching this, I may go make another batch.

[DanielC]

We currently have been using Royal Oak in mass quantities. Usually have a pallet on hand at a time, as it takes a lot. We usually in a normal round furnace consume 150lb of charcoal. That's 150lb, after it has been sized and sifted of fines.

 

I have noticed that the charcoal I make in my retort which is based off of Ian's, to burn hotter than store bought. Seemed to work good with magnetite, but if you aren't careful with your temps getting too hot, you may end up with cast iron in the end. Which is still use able. The white cast iron (I think it would be considered white. Its usually well above 1.5C) can be decarburized (if a person can manage it) and used as is, or folded into a billet.

[Michael Cochran]

Daniel, I've tried something like this a couple times once with cast and partially remelted scrap still intact and once was a decent hc but I couldnt consolidate it right. Since then I've been trying to do some more research on the topi so I can figure out what I did wrong. From what I see it looks like you guys have a pretty good idea wha you're doin so I have to ask, could you give a new guy some recommended reading? I have spent a bunch of time reading but still feel like I'm a long ways from knowing enough to even to do this half right. 

Thanks in advance.

[Frosty]

That makes sense. With all the beating and prying I was wondering why he didn't just knock it down or hadn't designed it with a doorway. He did the second so he wouldn't have to do the former.

Is the interior being glazed by silica, slag, etc. or is the clay vitrifying itself?

I'll check out some of the others though I spent too much time sifting through videos Utoob thought I should be interested in. <sigh>

Thanks,

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[DanielC]

There can be a number of different factors that make or break a smelt. I have never tried any media other than ore and we have done re-melts with bloom fluff, and partially reduced ore. The re-melts usually produce higher carbon steels than our brown limonite ores. Regarding other furnace designs, the inside and outs can be entirely different, so what you need to do to get it right with one furnace design will be different with another. Generally however, after you have been around a smelter you start to get a hang for the mechance involved. Right now Mark's process is dialed in with a round style furnace. If we are to change anything at all, we tend to alter only one characteristic of the smelter rather than several. Since our smelts are quite abundant, changing one each time allows one to figure out how to dial it in. We have had great success leaving the air alone and controlling burn rate by the ore-fuel ratio.

As far as reading goes, there are several very rare books on smelting that I do not own, though Mark and several others do. They are quite cost prohibitive if you can even find one available. My hunt is ongoing. If my videos and his Picasa haven't cleared it up, I would suggest trying the video that is available to buy at Lee Sauder's website.

 

Frosty-

Yea the door makes it easier to pry out, and allows us to use the stack another time. With the clay mixture always available, any resulting cracks from prying are easily sealed shut, the door as well is easily re-built. Also another good thing about this mixture is it can be crushed up and re-animated or recycled. Some of the castable refractories to my knowledge get so hard, the crushing is quite difficult.

The interior is glazed by vetrification.

A quick source to my videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/TAGMushy/videos

[Frosty]

I've been a tinkerer all my life and don't think I've ever used a tool, machine or watched something done without redesigning it. It's how my mind works so almost every aspect of your videos raises ideas and questions. Yeah, I'm one of THOSE, I have the ideas THEN ask questions but I rarely just change things.

Watching the door break out I kept thinking the shape of the sills could make it easier to open but not leak till you wanted it open. Something like a bank vault or pressure door.  I'll keep the idea in mind while I surf through more videos. Maybe I'll see the light before making bad suggestions. <grin>

I agree whole heartedly with what you said in the first part of your reply. Changing more than one thing at a time in a complex system tends to leave you wondering why THAT happened. Change one thing, see what happens, evaluate and adjust or move on.

Thanks for the link.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[DanielC]

I am sure you could build on this and come up with a working furnace that made beautiful iron or steel. Once I build my stack I have a few slight modifications myself, while retaining the basic design, it should be fine.

If and when you build your stack and run a smelt, be sure to get another cohort to tag along and take lots of pics and vids! Smelting has a steep learning curve because the information seems to be both trapped in time and scarcity. You may even stumble on a re-discovery that changes the viewpoints of all. The smelting community is very open to learning something new.

Edited June 3, 2015 by DanielC

[Frosty]

Oh I'm sure I'd discover and rediscover many significant things in the don't do it THAT way category. <grin>

Took your shop tour, much neater than mine. That looks like an Ashley Wood heater you haven't installed yet. Lived a winter with an Ashley in a cabin in the woods when I first moved to Ak. It was sort of a tradition for folk moving in to go live a year in the woods and get it out of our systems. The Ashely was an excellent stove for it's day. How cold is a cold day there?

Not that it matters, I only compare other folk's weather with Alaska's for fun. Raining right now but that's a GOOD thing, it's been way too dry for way too long. Most of the state is under a red flag fire danger warning, almost universal burn bans.

Wow, wasn't that a tangent!

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Michael Cochran]

I'm headed over to Mark's picasa now. I've not tried round or Catalan, mine was just a stack of 80 year old solid brick I had lying around. I'll watch some more of your videos and do much more readin before I give it another go. Thanks for sharing all this it's been educational eavesdropping on you and Frosty. 

[DanielC]

My shop is a mess and in need of completion. Just built and installed a HT furnace, with a tempering furnace to go. Been wanting to install a flue for solid fuel to be used inside, instead of outside. Also building a ribbon burner for my first gas forge. Still have room for a press in the future, and another work bench built out of all the building materials in the back. On a clean day the shop isn't so bad, but I was challenged to impromptu post a shop vid, lol.

The wood stove was given to me this year, and hope to install it by this coming winter. Will sure help for an uninsulated shop! The winters aren't too, too bad. This year we got down to 0, but we never go below 0. With my shop open every time I forge (2 car garage 20'x20'), I am never not in the elements. A flue and a gas forge is a must.

 

@ Cochran

Yep. Enjoy the learning. I gravitated to smelting after watching the Tatara run in Japan online. I couldn't have been luckier to live less than an hour away from one of the most seasoned smelters in the world, and a great friend.

[Michael Cochran]

You definitely have a valuable resource there. I first became interested in smelting the same way. I saw a video online and that's all it took lol.

[Frosty]

Yeah, I feel the darkness drawing me more strongly with every post. <wimper> I can't seem to stop thinking about building a furnace! Aieeeeeeee e e  e   e    e     e  .   .    .     .

Frosty The Lucky.

[Michael Cochran]

That's what happened to me when I built my stack out of old brick. I'm ready for another go except for the not knowing enough and not wanting to keep wasting fuel lol.

[Frosty]

I'd get out a chainsaw and start making charcoal but it seems I have this strange aversion to cutting down trees.

Hmmm, I wonder what a ton of pet coke would cost?

Curse you Daniel!

Frosty The Lucky.

[Michael Cochran]

Frosty I get my charcoal wood from work (I build and remodel houses) and from tree limbs that fall on their own. It takes a while sometimes to get enough but it's an option. We have to throw out old lumber where we torn down walls etc I bring most of it home cause I don't like to see it wasted. In fact that's how I built my current shop and how im affording the lumber for my new shop. If you were a little closer I'd offer you some but I doubt it's worth you comin here to get it lol.

[Frosty]

Finding wood to charcoal isn't a problem, I live in a forest. It's charcoaling in a forest during nearly state wide red flag fire danger that's counter indicated. I don't want to be remembered as THAT guy.

One of our guys gets pet coke shipped in yearly for the cupola and it might be worth getting a ton piggy backed.

Then again I'm actually more interested in figuring out how to resist the temptation to let myself become addicted to bloomery smelting, the steel store is less than 15 minutes from me.

Besides I've been thinking of making a smooth sided truncated cone with easy opening "door" for the furnace. Fuel isn't a problem, I know a number of guys that'd be willing to camp out on a sand bar while the retort pyrolizes a few batches.

Frosty The Lucky.

[ianinsa]

Finding wood to charcoal isn't a problem, I live in a forest. It's charcoaling in a forest during nearly state wide red flag fire danger that's counter indicated. I don't want to be remembered as THAT guy.

One of our guys gets pet coke shipped in yearly for the cupola and it might be worth getting a ton piggy backed.

Frosty The Lucky.

​

Frosty, I believe its possible to carbonize 'lawn cigars' that way you could have 'pet' charcoal'  (I however will NOT be trying it)

 I definitely carbonize old dog bones when I make 'garden charcoal' my set up is right under the trees at my place and weaver birds even nest very close to the chimney vent(eejits) as one bottom feeds you shouldn't get flying embers(I would also add s/s mesh to the flue if I was in your position) and if one adds a 18 ft. chimney there would be less output than from a domestic fireplace.

I must say that this whole '' game'' is very enticing, luckily our iron ore is about two hours drive away so its not 'lying around under foot ' thereby helping me resist the urge.(although Daniel's video/s aren't helping)

Edited June 4, 2015 by ianinsa

[Frosty]

The retort I helped build back when didn't send up sparks or flame either. Once it started burning wood gas it was only hot and made a little noise. I'm still going to pass. If pet coke isn't affordable or the local coal doesn't coke well for the purpose it'll keep me from that abyss on the dark side.

Now if I could just stop watching Daniel's Youtube videos and asking questions.

Frosty The Lucky.

[DanielC]

With the problem of charcoal. For the most part we use lump charcoal bought in stores like Home Depot. They sell in 17 or 20lb bags, can't remember. Get 150lb. Worth for a smelt with a 8" cylinder stack. Go any bigger and expect to nearly double your charcoal consumption.

Luckily we found someone who wants to buy a few full sized blooms, so that should fund several pallets of charcoak, or enough to smelt all year without having to buy charcoal.

[ThomasPowers]

For our smelts we used to go to a charcoal manufacturer and buy 40# sacks at wholesale.

[DanielC]

We finally found a manufacturer that would do that. When we buy pallets we will get them $10 per 20#, or .50c a pound.

[DanielC]

Here is a view through our tuyure. It is neat how and where the bloom forms in this style furnace. Apologies for blur however. It is hard to focus when it is so intensely bright, even with welding glass. You can see the bloom (dark) and the molten iron and slag hit the bloom, weld, and cool off.

 

[DanielC]

Gearing up for 2nd smelt in a week. This past Sunday we successfully ran a smelt at EricS's house and made a solid 8# bloom with another ~5+ pounds of bloom fluff using our locally obtained limonite ore using the round stack furnace.

 

Tomorrow we are running again, yet this time back at Mark's house and instead of limonite, we are using high Ti magnetite also locally obtained. Our local magnetite ores are compositionally identical to what the Japanese used historically. We get our ores tested by a smelting friend in Germany.

This stack (round) is going to be increased in height a little bit to what we usually do for iron, to increase the length of the reduction zone, and make steel. This bloom has a well known buyer, so probably won't be keeping any. Ah well, it will pay for a pallet or two of charcoal for future smelts.

Edited June 19, 2015 by DanielC

[Frosty]

Are you going to video the important parts?

I'm sure you've said so before but I've missed it. What are the general dimensions of your round stacks? IIRC 8" ID. ?

Frosty The Lucky.