Jonathan Dracon Michelin Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I'm working on a knife and the O1 steel is 2"x13" and I need it a little wider ir is 1/4 inch thick, the client wants it around that thickness if I heat and widen the steel alittle it will be ok, or should I get a wider piece of steel? Im a novice when it comes to a set pattern and bar steel lol, any advice would be greatly appreciated, it was mentioned to me that i should forge the first finger groove then start a bend like my template design, anyone have any tips and advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malice9610 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 If you were heart and soul set on doing purely stock removal, then you will want another piece. If you are feeling a bit gutsy. You could redraw the handle somewhat straight, cut it out, then heat the midpoint of the handle to get your curve, but you would have to account for the increased thickness at the inside part of the bend is the only post process hiccup that should come up. so it depends, do it the easy way, or do it the " hard " way, as you could heat that and bend it in one heat no problem.Hows the O1 flat stock for removal, I have only ever worked O1 in round stock full blown forging, fun stuff, like it a lot more then leaf spring sections which I have far more of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Dracon Michelin Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 ive never worked O1, its my first try for a customer, ive done only a eaf spring and smelted some ore i got from a mine car a feww years ago, small run LOL, some say its ok, while others swear against it. Malice, I believe I will do as you suggest, cut it out and do a bend, it will distort so should i elongate it a it before i cut it out, or cut it out then elongate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakersteve Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 So, not to be rude, but am I to understand that you are making knives for people as a knifemaker, but don't understand how to make knives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Dracon Michelin Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 its for a trade, I can make knives, but its this handle i cant wrap my head around, and no worries about being rude, being blunt is the best way, im just trying to wrap my head around this style of tang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 If you don't understand how to forge; you run a very real risk of destroying your piece. (I've seen a new person do a good job forging their first blade and then toss it in the slack tub as I screamed "*NO*!!!!!!!!" because "that was how they did it in the movies...". I gave him the pieces to remind him that movies are not real life.)If you understand how to forge then widening the piece by forging the bevel out is not a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Dracon Michelin Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 ok thanks, i have the theroy down, but the main hands on not alot of it, this is the first complicated one im working on, my original plan was to cut the handle shape and then heat and simply bend it, would you suggest it, or should i hammer it abit to lengthen and then do the shaping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastRonin Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I'm not a knifemaker, but the basic physics in this question are the same. If you hammer your stock to lengthen it, you will thin that area out and therefore have a thin spot and potential gap between the steel and scales. I recommend heating and bending the stock before pattern application, then you can grind the thickened inner part of the bend back to proper thickness, apply your pattern, cut it out and continue from there with stock removal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) As you have stock removal experience I would forge the tang end down and out and try to keep it the same thickness as you do so---the infamous "two steps forward one step back" technique. Once the blank now looks like the pattern will fit take it from there using your standard techniques. Remember to not forge O1 as if it was mild steel! (Plenty of steel to make that handle, it's just located in the wrong place!) Edited May 6, 2015 by ThomasPowers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Dracon Michelin Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 ok thanks guys, so my idea was the better idea, heat, bend and then squeeze back the thicker metal, i think i have my plan now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Assuming your stock is long enugh and wide enugh (with the bend) to acomidate your patern, seeing you have stock removal experiance and no forging experiance I would side with the bend it hot and grind it out crew. Bending on edge is harder than on the flat, and it will most likely twist, flattening it out over the anvil isnt to dificult. If you dont understand what the guys are talking about, when you bend, the inside of the bend will "upset" or bunch up and the outside will strech as compared to the centerline. This is because the iner edge will shorten and the outer edge will lengthen. I would sugjest roughing in your first finger notch and your palm notch (leave enugh meat in the back as that progile will strech) so you now have les stock to bend, get a good orange to yellow heat, and not just for an inch, but 4-6"then bend, lot easer to bend 1" the hardway than 2". The finger notch will close up some so expext to regrind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Dracon Michelin Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 i havemore forging experience actually, ive roughed bevels into knives, but nothing this massive, and thanks Charles, for explaining it to me, ill do as you said and i believe it will make it easier on me And Steve, I did read a few posts there, but ive been around the board for along while reading and not posting, ive read the art of the blacksmith, and the complete bladesmithing book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 If you want strait no candy coating Steve is your man. He is always a little grumpy before his afternoon tea, lol. If I might suggest you start spending more time forging to develope the skills and eye for moving hot steel. I myself am not a cutler but my friend TJ is, when he switched from purly stock removal to forged blankes, there was a steep learning curve but it he clames it saves him so much time. There are a lot of tools and such that you can forge that will not only build your skills but make it easer to work as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Dracon Michelin Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 yup, i agree making tools will give you the tools needed pardon the pun, this time im simply going to try to do as discussed then make a few tools and learn more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Shounds like a plan, turning on edge is somthing I'm good at, being a farrier and all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Dracon Michelin Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 thats what made me get into smithing, that and wanting to make my own tools lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malice9610 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Good luck with it ..... post pictures, Im sure you have noticed people round here like Pictures.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMaelstrom Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I have actually forged two knives with a very similar blade profile to the one pictured, and only one of them survived heat treat. Mind you, this was a good five years ago when I got really serious about blade making. Still, that step from the upper portion of the blade to the lower portion was a bear to grind evenly with the tools I had, and proved to be the point of failure in the blade that didn't survive. A sloppy HT, combined with a rough, uneven grind proved to be the downfall. For someone who doesnt have a huge amount of experience making blades, it might take some trial and error (as it did with myself). I had attempted to make them for a friend of a friend. After I broke the first one, I didnt feel confidant enough to sell off the one that did survive. In hindsight though, I could have, being that I have used it heavily for years (although I have learned to not prefer the blade design for general use). Just a fellow amateur's two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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