stan

Bayonet handle needs blade

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Hi guys, came across this old bayonet handle $10.checked it out Aust Lithgow mod 1907 for a lee enfield 303 mk 1 I think, because I could not find any marking on the outside so the id from pictures only. Blade 17inches overall length 21.5 inches.A knife maker I`m not But I would like to Make a blade probably out of coil spring and attach it to the original handle just for display purposes.Anyone have any ideas also why did it have such a weak point where it broke.

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I don't have any experience with bayonets but in the pics it almost looks like the blade had a little tit that was in the handle steel. Is that what I'm seeing? Is the butt integral? If it's not, you could pull them off and grind out a new blade to find the handle. It's not a project I'd do with unknown steel though, I'd suggest some 1084 or 1095.

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They were integral forgings. I have a few of these bayonets, and I am trying to figure out what the notch in front is for. Looks like someone possibly modified it for another use. Hard to tell from the pictures alone.

Edited by BIGGUNDOCTOR

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Thanks guys, yeah  maybe someones tried to do something with it.I was surprised to see that half round slot were the blade would have joined .I suppose it don`t really matter, if  its display only, Question is whether I join a blade to it with electric weld then forge it in or try something like silver solder.

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I would weld it instead of silver soldering. But then again, that will depend on what alloy you use for the blade, and your welding skills. Pinned, and soldered with a lap joint may work. It will only be as strong as the weakest point, so.......

 

Now what could be fun is to make it a folder..

Edited by BIGGUNDOCTOR

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Well that is interesting, was the blade braised to the handle? I could see cost benefits for a turn of the century manufacture.

​Hi Charles does seem to be some sort of coating maybe lead directly under the guard might just silver solder a blade on for looks only. Here`s a picture might be clearer

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Edited by stan

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Not to contradict you BG, but unless the blade is narrower than the handle in the widest aspect, you couldn't get the guard on the knife. I have later generation (WWII) bayonet ( opposing team) it is possible that the one I have was pressed in place. But the assembly shown either calls for a three piece construction or a blade that the guard can slip over. Mine is from the opposing. Teem, but you can see that the hilt is just a hair wider than the blade. Bit backwards from what we useualy see in knifes.

 It certainly looks like silver soder was used, if some fool used it for some Hollywood heat the blade stupidity or to roast a weanie...

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I would weld it instead of silver soldering. But then again, that will depend on what alloy you use for the blade, and your welding skills. Pinned, and soldered with a lap joint may work. It will only be as strong as the weakest point, so.......

 

Now what could be fun is to make it a folder..

Biggundoctor yeah I think you right , I`ll electric weld it and reforge it to size. If I use coil spring then just anneal back to blue.I think the look of spring steel would be more original looking  than mild

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 Edited because poster didnt know how to

 

​That's a nice bayonet, see what you mean about fitting the guard needs to slide over the blade the fixed to the end of the handle section.Maybe that's what that solder was original to retain the guard  because it was directly under the guard piece.That blade don`t look easy to forge either, special tools required

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as a wall hanger, you could just use mild steel. but what little knowledge I have on the subject, they were not a high carbon steel, like 1084/95 because of rough use ( prying, opening c-rat cans, ammo crates, etc.) and when "fixed" a harder steel could fail considering it was attached to a 4' rifle, I would think that 5160 would be more of the "type" of steel that would have been used. but its your bayonet so do as you please. will be interesting to see the finished product, good luck jimmy

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thanks Jim got this old tyre iron yesterday going to use that but not going to heat treat.

74781

74782

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I'm pretty sure that's a WWII german bayonet.  I have one similar.  Toward the latter part of the war i think that the, usually picky, German workers were using some inferior scrap steels and cutting all kinds of corners!  Defects seem common.  Remember that the German war machinery was under tremendous pressure and very desperate as the Allies closed in!

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Stan's bayonet handle is for a British Lee Enfield , I have several of them. The U.S. used the same bayonet on the P17 Enfield's made for WWI, and the trench guns which were 12 gage shotguns. The one Charles has is for the German K98 Mauser.

Edited by BIGGUNDOCTOR

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You are welcome Charles, they are made more for stickin' than cuttin' . 

The German bayonets were different in that they relied only on the bayonet lug for mounting, and never had the additional barrel band like everyone else used. You may want yo check the rarity of that maker, as some bayonets are really collectible just because of who they were made by.

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Thanks, she holds an edge well and despite the fact i dont carry her i would be confident in using it as either a weapon or a tool (tho at a 10" blade lenght she is unwealdy) I have some thought to combining desighn eliments from her, my applegate fairborn and the kepard knife as a bit more user friendly utility knife but as I'm not ready to jump off into the knifemaking abbis yet...

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Charles, I did a quick search, and it appears that you have one of the rare bayonets. Clemen &Jung  is a sought after maker for collectors. Unfortunately you sharpened it, but it my be rare enough that a collector would overlook it  just to have that maker in a collection.  You may want you get it appraised, then convert it to smithing gear ;)

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Charles, I have an identical one to yours. it has, however, seen MUCH better days and was pretty beat up when my dad gave it to me (not to mention, having a handle covered in duct tape). He loved the thing so much that he named it "Dirge", and took it with him every time he went camping. I agree with you, the blade makes it a bit unwieldy, but other than that, it is a superb tool. Took an edge very well. 

Since then however, it was stored in a basement that flooded. I think it would take some extreme TLC/magic to get it back to acceptable condition. 

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Yes sir, but how the heck would I go about finding a colecter

​Probably locate one, or someone who knows how to get in touch with one at a gun show. I'm sure if you looked online there's probably a forum for military bayonet collectors or WWII  military equipment collectors. Sort of like here you could simply ask it's value and where something like this might bring the most money. If it's really rare, you might do well at one of these military memorabilia auctions. They usually know the who's who that has an interest in these things and advertize them where they get the most interest. Many of those guys keep a list of collectors that are looking for something and contact them when items that might interest them come up for sale.

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As a using tool, try soeking it vinigar untill the rust comes off with a green scrub pad. Pull the scales first, the screws are probbably a loss. The spring just pulles out of the sheith, tho it may take a day or two in vinigar to losen it up. After that it is a matter of desiding how agresive you want to get, the rough serface will be harder to clean this assumes ofcorse that it dosnt look like somthing dredged up out if a bog... 

Thanks DSW.

 

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Charles, Google will find several bayonet collectors around the world. One of my go to sites when I was really heavy into military firearms and accessories was gunbroker.com , they have a bayonet forum you can start with.

 

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Stan, did you buy it at a swapmeet? I've seen pictures of bayonet handles being used as gearknobs on hotrods. That would perhaps explain the notch, which I doubt is an original feature. Sure looks like a three-oh bayonet to me. I remember the old ones as being very long (the 17" blade that you mention). The SAF Museum here ( http://www.lithgowsafmuseum.org.au/index.html ) describes them as a 'sword bayonet'.

I have a Lithgow FN bayonet, but that's another thing altogether.

-Phil (in Lithgow)

Edited by Phil H

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