Confused about brass

[Jesse17]

I read on here, IIRC, that brass should be heated to red, then quenched to anneal it, then worked cold. I couldn't find any brass bar stock locally, but picked up a piece of scrap that looked to be a bearing race of some sort. It was a ring about 6" dia. and 1/2"+ thick. I cut a 1/4 of it off, heated until red (or a touch better) and quenched. Then tried to straighten it out with a 2.25lb hammer. Nothing. I repeated this process several times and the brass never budged. So I tried hitting it while it was red and it worked just like steel. That is until I turned it on edge, and hit it. Then it just crumbled.

I moved back on the piece and flattened it again, with lighter blows this time. I managed to get it down to the 1/4"+ that I was shooting for. Then I laid out the area to remove for my knife tang (I'm making a finger guard, btw) and tried drilling it. My drill press would just sit and spin on the brass. I ended up having to start with nearly my smallest drill bit and work up in size with every bit size I had. Skipping one size the drill bit would just sit and spin.

What the heck? I thought brass was softer than steel. Why is it so hard to drill, and why was the work it cold thing not working AT ALL?

[swedefiddle]

Welcome to the world of using scrounged material. Sometimes you win, Sometimes you get spanked.

For doing a Job that you care about, always use, new, known or previously confirmed compatible material.

It is difficult to make Honey, with what the Dog just left behind.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

It may not be brass.

When drilling brass you need to modify your drill bit for better action.A dull bit will just spin-remember why brass is used for bushings? 

Post a picture.

[Alan Evans]

Sounds almost like Aluminium Bronze if you were having problems working it cold. Did it feel harder then mild steel?

Was it at orange/red/dull red/ when it crumbled? Was the room dim or well lit?

No oil burned out of it when you heated it did it?

Alan

[Nobody Special]

If you were at "red or a touch better", then I second aluminum alloy. Aluminum is a pain to work hot because it falls apart on you if you overheat it. (although it moves like butter up to that point....) Melting temp is about 1200, bright red is about 900.......or that orange at 1300 might look cherry red depending on the light, so.......

Some alloys forge well cold with annealing, some not so much, especially if it was cast.

I'll admit I'm a little stumped, biggun. Thought brass bushings are used for exposure to water, and it doesn't bind to steel over time. What's going on with the drill bit? Just saying his bits are too dull and he's work hardened the piece?

[ianinsa]

The interesting thing here is that phosfor bronze is the more common product in bearings, that said, the typical difference between brass and bronze is the use of zinc as an alloy in brass and tin in bronze. Many people believe they can tell the difference by what it was/is used for , however I think its a crap- shoot. Some things are called bronze but are in fact a brass so who knows! Typically brass is soft and bronze is hard providing of course that you allow for a vast number of exeptions

[Steve Sells]

then there is Ampco, with a little iron and others things to confuse us all. Makes for great bearings tho

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

And heat treated beryllium copper alloys that are really tough. Beryllium alloys are also hot short and crumble when hot worked.

For drilling brass I was taught to modify the cutting edges of the drill by making them perpendicular to the part by grinding a slight flat on them. By doing that the drill bit does more of a scraping action than grabbing with sharp edges..  Brass has a low coefficient of friction, so it takes some pressure to get a drill going at times. Even work hardened brass isn't that hard, just slippery. CuBe alloys on the other hand can be used for springs, hammers, axes, knives, wrenches, etc...when precipitation hardened. When we heat treat at work it is between 600° F and 750°F for around 2 hours. Getting red and quenching to anneal worked for me, but it is still tough to move annealed.