making a copper rose

[ausfire]

I was given some nice lengths of 6mm copper rod and I thought they would be good for rose stems and leaves. No problem to forge the leaves (only burnt one) with gentle heat and careful hammering. I found an old copper water tank in the scrap and cut the petals from that and all is good.
Now comes the assembly. I want to weld/solder/braze/s.solder the leaves to the stem. I think lead solder would be a disaster. Any ideas on how to attach copper to copper?

 

 

relocating this to the subsection for copper, Interestingly enough  we have talked about this before..

[njanvilman]

I usually hammer a tenon on the end of the stem.  Make the hole in the petal pieces just slightly smaller than the tenon size.  Drive the layers down onto the tenon against the shoulder.  Adjust the length of the tenon, cut off excess, then heat the tenon and drive it down to form a rivet head.   The tenon stem should be a "rough" forging, the roughness helps hold the petals from rotating.

 

I have also seen where threads were put on the tenon with a die, and a nut tightened down to hold the petals.  I do not like the look of the nut in the middle when you are done.  You could leave a long enough piece sticking beyond the nut, and forge a rivet head to hide the nut.

[ausfire]

I usually hammer a tenon on the end of the stem. Make the hole in the petal pieces just slightly smaller than the tenon size. Drive the layers down onto the tenon against the shoulder.

Ah, and therin lies another problem. How to create a shoulder. Can you upset copper the same way as steel? I would think it would be too fragile.

[jeremy k]

Yes, you can forge a tenon as you can with steel.

[njanvilman]

Copper can be cold hammered very easily.  You might have to anneal it first:  Heat to a dull red then quench in water, or a water/vinegar mix.  Hammering the tenon will be very easy.  Be careful you do not hit it too hard.  When first annealed, copper is almost as soft as lead.

[bigfootnampa]

Silver solder would work well. Don't use lead. Easy solder would be more forgiving to work with. Silver solder is available at jewelers suppliers. Designed for jewelry work it comes in several grades. Hard solder has the highest melting point and is pretty close to the copper melt point. Then there is medium solder, possibly at a couple of melt points and easy solder, still much harder than plumbing solders but with a lower melt point than hard or medium solders. Easy solder is easy to work with because the melt point differential is wider. The different grades are designed for complex pieces where several solder operations may be needed. A skilled jeweler can step down from hard solder through the grades soldering each step with a lower melt point solder while not melting his previously soldered steps. It takes considerable skill to do this consistently! For a single step assembly, easy solder will do a fine job without requiring the level of skill needed for hard soldering.

[Jim Coke]

Greetings Aus,

I upset the stem than form a small square tenon . Drill the Pedels, punch square, than file fit the tenon and set. This keeps the pedals from rotating . The leaves Big Foot covered it best. Good luck
Forge on and make beautiful things
Jim

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Now to answer your original question of attaching the leaves to the stem.

Here in the States we have a brazing rod used for refrigeration lines called phos-copper. It is a phosphorous copper alloy that is a great color match. Check with your HVAC (heating ventilation, and air conditioning) techs to see what they use.

If that is out, there are some low temp silver solders out there. Gunsmiths use them for various parts, and some melt at 400°F

A pure mechanical way would be to drill a hole, insert the stem, and crimp in the walls around it.

I would like to see how yours turns out as I have a bunch of copper bar ends , and have thought about doing roses with them.

[ausfire]

Thank you ... all suggestions taken onboard. I have already drilled the petal centres to 6mm to slip over the 6mm rod but I may try upsetting the rod a little to forge a 6mm square tenon and then filing the petals to 6mm square. That would certainly avoid the problem of petals slipping on the stem. I have various silver solders, but my experience in using them is lacking. Might practise on a bit of scrap first. We'll see what happens. Thanks again for the advice.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Annealed copper is really soft, so upsetting should not be a problem. Just watch out for it getting stiff under the hammer which means it will need to be annealed again.

[stan]

Hi I am a refrigeration mechanic , The best copper to copper solder is brown tip(15%silver) its much cheaper than silver solder(60%) and easier to use very little cleaning up no flux is needed. Just heat evenly, don`t get it red, and give to joint a wipe with the solder stick every now and then until it flows then you ready to apply. Solder will follow the heat. you can also use brown tip for copper to brass or copper to steel but these require flux and cleaning up. Brown tip can be purchased from any refrigeration or plumbing suppliers.

[FRODO,]

I do a little copper work,    also a plumber,  I work with a lot of copper

when you apply your flux,  then heat,  your solider can/will flow where the flux is, sometimes it goes where you do not want it to go

, heres is a tip, if you use soft lead free solider

I brush plain old pipe dope on the copper adjadent to the work i am solidering,  the solider will not stick to that area.

 

after solidering, just clean it off by rubbing with a damb rag

 

below, i made an orafice for a lp burner

 

attach copper to copper, thin sheet copper, low heat, lead free solider, flux

i would not use sil floss,  thin copper is to easy to burn up

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2015 by FRODO,