blackleafforge Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Im in the process of setting up shop at the moment and wanted a power hammer, i came across this advert in the BABA newsletter: FOR SALE: TWO ANYANG 25KG AIR HAMMERS - MANCHESTER The hammers are mounted on robust but compact bases fabricated in 10mm mild steel plate. The bases are designed to have the minimum possible foot print – approximately 800 x 500mm. The electric (3 phase) motors are housed within the base rather than sticking out the back of the hammer. The bases are also designed so that the hammers can be moved by a forklift or pallet trolley. The hammers have just had a thorough inspection and been serviced and repainted by John Nicholson at Massey, who supplied the hammers to us (new) in February 2007. John has also carried out the latest modification to the lubrication system on the hammers. Each hammer comes with one set of dies. The hammers are located at Massey in Manchester if you would like to see them. They can be shipped anywhere in the UK via the pallet network. John has valued the hammers at £3950 plus VAT each, including pallet delivery, but we may be open to negotiation, particularly if you want the pair! One of these hammers has been used by Uri Hofi at a BABA event; will it inspire you to blacksmithing greatness? I have only ever used a blacker before so am having a hard time judging if this is worth the cost. Is this the hammer you guys would buy in my position? Is this a good price? Also i am getting slightly confused with the terminology - are Massey and Anyang different brands or is one supplied and maintained by the other? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 The hammers are hammers…my only misgivings are that they are only 25kg but then I want to work larger material. What sort of work do you have for it? What sort of work do you aspire to? If you are looking to work 50mm square and up on a regular basis look for something larger. If you are working up to 25mm they will be fine. In 1980 when I was setting up I bought a 50kg Reiter which cost me £4800, I already owned a Blacker. My Reiter was my main hammer for over ten years and is still going strong. So given the amount of inflation since then the price of these is a relative steal. The Anyang hammers are modern Chinese manufacture. From my experience (and if you do a search on here and the other blacksmithing sites) you will find that some have had lubrication problems but between John Nicholson here and the American Agent for them I understand that issue has been identified and resolved. They are not as beautifully made as a Massey hammer by any means. An equivalent new Massey would probably be at least ten times that sort of money, which is possibly one reason why they are no longer made…. Most of the larger hammers are two-piece, with a separate anvil, so although you could probably find a "Rolls Royce" Massey clear space 2, 3 or 5cwt for that sort of money you will be paying pretty much the same again to install it. I have bought one (nearly) new hammer the Reiter and a number of second hand ones. The most easily setup and really useful jobbing hammer I have is a 1cwt Alldays and Onions. Very versatile, great capacity. It shares the significant advantage of those Anyangs in that it is one-piece and requires minimal foundation to work. When I first had mine going it was on a couple of scaffold planks bedded on 25mm of sand on an earth floor. The base on those Anyangs also look like you can just plonk them down anywhere and plug them in…wonderful. You may need to isolate the floor slab section it sits on or require an inertia block or a more complex foundation if you need to prevent the transmission of vibration to you neighbours. An afternoon with a hired diamond saw can resolve that. Your best bet is to go and visit a few people, especially those who do the same sort of work that you would like to get into and see what hammers they use. Attend a few BABA events forge-ins where you may be able to try the various machines. You may well find the 25kg Anyang is the perfect hammer for you. Alan p.s. I have just downloaded the BABA newsletter and saw the ad. you refer to….however...from my knowledge of hammers though there is much better hammer in the same newsletter, the one-piece 1/2cwt Massey with slides for sale from Owen Bush. If the size is appropriate for you and your work then I would not hesitate to go for that one…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knots Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Check the tup stroke length spec. provided by the Anyang 25kg hammers. I have never forged on a 25 kg hammer but it seems to me that the short stroke limits the usefulness of add on die fixtures. My Kuhn KO (27kg) has about 8 1/2" stroke between the faces of standard flat dies which I think is about the mimimum if you plan to add on dies and still have enough storke left to forge at full power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndChanceCowboy Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 As a guy doing the same with currently putting together a shop as well. Take the above advice seriously an listen to what they said as it's 100 percent correct. I have spent 60 to 80 hours researching on power hammers alone. An I wish I had ask more questions too, yet its all good regardless. Don't get into a hurry getting one either. They are for sale everywhere an do take the advice of others with the work involved with floor n size. If you have the bucks, get a Sahinler as its self contained an available as single phase. Do you have or will have 3 phase Always? Don't put all your eggs into a hammer either. Spread abilities out to allow flexibility with jobs an capabilities. Make sure you have all bases covered as you'll put all your money back into business for the first 3 to 5yrs at the very least. If you are not offering something thats lacking, how will your business plan survive? Just tryin to keep ya eyes open an don't get hammer fever as I call. As they all will hammer iron. Buy what you can afford Only,,, Wish someone would've gave me more advice. Yet I am able to run with it regardless. There's tons of very wise folks here an use that an listen to what they say. Anyhow, good luck an happy to hear about the startup of your shop. Forge Onward Bro,,, Ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 we (massey) are the sole UK and Eire agents for Anyang, and distribute the small hammers. The 2x 25 kg hammers being sold in that advert were back at my place a few months ago, and I gave them a full going over (work not guaranteed to next owner though, not that there is anything wrong with the hammers, or my work !). They have had the lube system fully reworked with fine oil control valves, new copper oil lines etc. I did a nice job on them. The bases were not designed or made by us (customer made). The 25kg is a very useful sized hammer. You can do a lot of work with it. They are very predictable. Send me a PM on here if you want any more information about them. Please note that Sahinler is not available as a single phase option in the UK without going down the VFD / phase converter route. The biggest 'generally available' single phase motor you can have in the UK is 2.2 kw (3ph) - The Anyang 15 KG is the only power hammer that is true single phase. (there are the odd tire hammers, sping hammers and converted blackers that have a 1ph motor on them though). I understand Americans sometimes have a much beefier single phase supply, but im not a sparky so cant comment further ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Snip... . The biggest 'generally available' single phase motor you can have in the UK is 2.2 kw (3ph) - The Anyang 15 KG is the only power hammer that is true single phase. (there are the odd tire hammers, sping hammers and converted blackers that have a 1ph motor on them though). I think you have put the cart before the horse, or at least the power before the horse .... :) The first ph, 3ph should read "...2.2 kW (3hp)" as in 3 horse power? The second ph "...have a 1ph motor" is the right way round and means single phase? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 My thoughts would go as follows, Alan has buckets of experience in the UK so his advice is worth heeding. Hammers are hammers?( yet some are do-do) we have a similar hammer to those in our shop in Abu Dhabi and my personal feeling is a bit 'hobbyists' better than nothing but though it might not be expensive it isn't cheap. With respect to nonjic the very statement of work not g/teed etc. Would make me keener on a used Ebola decontamination suit. Owen Bush can't be far(think train/coach/Easyjet ) contact him and ask if you can come over for a gander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesrjohnson Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 The Anyang hammers with proper lubrication will last decades (or longer). They are industrial hammers built to run 24/7 in factory settings. Nonjic (John Nicholson) knows hammers and does good work... he is one of most knowledgeable people on power hammers in the world. If for any reason you have to rebuild the hammer, the parts are relatively inexpensive and available through John. If you are interested in how the hammer works and also the capability of the 25 kg hammer Google "Introduction to Anyang Power Hammers". I have made several video's that show how these hammers work, in the "intro" video, I am doing a lot of forging with the 25 kg hammer so you can get a better idea of it's capabilities, and also there are video's where I actually how to rebuild these hammers (although the library is not 100% complete). To see the entire video library google "jamesrjohn youtube" and you will be able to view all of the video's that I created. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackleafforge Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Thanks a lot for all taking the time to reply, i have always found this forum an indispensable and unrivalled source of friendly advice. Alan - The compact nature of this unit attracted me because i don’t have the space for anything much larger. I know this will limit the stock size i can work but i don’t think i will be going over 25mm very often. If i do try to work bigger stock can i damage the hammer? Im hoping that it will last me 10+ years with careful use, is that realistic? I will be working in a former military base that has been converted in to a business park so noise should not be an issue. I am putting up a prefabricated building on the outdoor concrete car park so i assume i can just sit it straight on to that with no prep work? The Massey half hundredweight one piece air hammer looks impressive but i was put off by the size and the fact that it was no longer in production - i would be concerned about sourcing replacement parts / dies and ongoing maintenance. I am of course assuming if the Anyang breaks down in a major way parts can still be found and fitted at reasonable prices? Knots - That is something i had not considered, i will check. Cowboy - To be honest the price of the Anyang is really pushing it for me and i could not really go any higher, as it is I’m going to have to make compromises with other bits of equipment but i felt this is one area i should invest in. I will have 3 phase, i don’t know about the future, as i understand it converting single to three phase then running a hammer off it would decrease its power, but is a possibility. nonJic - Its really good to hear the history of these hammers and thank you for your kind offer. Are you aware of why base alterations were made to them? Is it just a common way of adding lift points for a forklift truck? Jamesrjohnson - Thanks for the info i just watched the video, very professional. I have to say you answered a whole load of questions i didn’t even think to ask! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I considered buying one of those hammers for my school .but as I have two nearly up and running project hammers it seemed a little extravagant. I would not worry about a smaller air hammer struggling with big work which it will, but you can still get it done . It just takes more time . I am fairly certain that I have forged a lot bigger than that on a 15kg Anyang as I used one for a weekend welding up a patternwelded sword for a demo and have watched one being fed a diet of damascus billets at my forge ins (normally a lot bigger than 25mm)... Old hammers are nor for everyone and I can certainly understand wanting to be able to get parts . There is a certain something about them though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Thanks a lot for all taking the time to reply, i have always found this forum an indispensable and unrivalled source of friendly advice. Alan - The compact nature of this unit attracted me because i don’t have the space for anything much larger. I know this will limit the stock size i can work but i don’t think i will be going over 25mm very often. If i do try to work bigger stock can i damage the hammer? Im hoping that it will last me 10+ years with careful use, is that realistic? I will be working in a former military base that has been converted in to a business park so noise should not be an issue. I am putting up a prefabricated building on the outdoor concrete car park so i assume i can just sit it straight on to that with no prep work? The Massey half hundredweight one piece air hammer looks impressive but i was put off by the size and the fact that it was no longer in production - i would be concerned about sourcing replacement parts / dies and ongoing maintenance. I am of course assuming if the Anyang breaks down in a major way parts can still be found and fitted at reasonable prices? I appreciate the your caution with an old machine. in 1980-ish I had a one off chance of a grant from the Crafts Council for a power hammer and chose the nearly new/ex-demonstrator Reiter option for exactly the same reasons. I could not risk that the hammer should fail irreparably. With the Reiter I had a warranty for at least a year and the confidence inherent in a new machine. As far as the working life of the Anyangs goes, like all hammers they are made of metal, if it wears or breaks it can be repaired or replaced, I would think you would have it for your working life given a bit of maintenance! Maybe I should have made it clearer but my actual words were "I would not hesitate to go for that one…." given that I have subsequently bought second hand machines and have found them to be invariably reliable and easy to repair when they do occasionally fail. You should maybe hesitate, you are in a different position. I trust you understood that the main thrust of my advice was that you need to figure out what sort of work you are going to do and equip for that. Nobody else can really help you with that. The size of the hammer is not so important. "Hammers are Hammers", any power hammer assistance is invaluable. Providing you have appropriate work for it an investment in a 25kg one can help you earn enough for a larger one very much quicker than the money will accumulate in the bank! :) You won't damage an air hammer by forging a larger size of stock. The limiting factor is that they generate their maximum blow at the end of their stroke, the smaller the piece of metal the harder the hit. If you try working a bit of 200mm in a hammer with a 220mm stroke, it will just tap it. A shorter stroke hammer generates less impact all other things equal. The reason the similar-weight-tup and smaller-motor-powered Alldays 1cwt is more versatile than my 50kg Reiter is that it is accelerating through a longer stroke. The Alldays will hit harder and can be used with taller top tools. If you are stuck you can sometimes use a lowered or offset bottom block to enable taller tools or larger material to be forged, always ensuring that the ram cannot over-extend its stroke and bottom out of course. I have found that useful for drifting holes... Bigger is also better though, I hardly ever use my 1cwt because the 3cwt has similar sensitivity of control but just gets the job done faster…. The footprint issue is also pretty important, so having something that you can move around easily as those Anyangs is a great advantage. I also have a relatively small space and only have one fixture in the workshop, the 3cwt hammer. Everything else is moveable around the floor to accommodate the current project space requirements, including the hearth. Do travel round and look at a few in use to build up your knowledge of the variables involved. Drop by here if you are passing. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 My thoughts would go as follows, Alan has buckets of experience in the UK so his advice is worth heeding. Hammers are hammers?( yet some are do-do) we have a similar hammer to those in our shop in Abu Dhabi and my personal feeling is a bit 'hobbyists' better than nothing but though it might not be expensive it isn't cheap. With respect to nonjic the very statement of work not g/teed etc. Would make me keener on a used Ebola decontamination suit. Owen Bush can't be far(think train/coach/Easyjet ) contact him and ask if you can come over for a gander. If you took your 7 year old car to the dealer that supplied it to you, and they gave it a quick once over and made a couple of mods to it, and charged a mates rate couple of hundred quid for it, would you then expect the dealer to guarantee the work to the person you flogged the car to ???? or would you expect the dealer to say that they have given it a once over, are happy with it, but cant guarantee the car ? If the dealer said to the person that was buying it from you ' give me a bell if you want to chat about the car, and ill take 20 mins out of my busy working day to give you some guidance' for absolutely no commercial gain, would you still call him to >>> on a public forum ???? You have a similar hammer,very helpful. Is it the same capacity hammer form the same manufacturer ? Ive put a few of these into industrial forges making tools, and they are still going strong a decade later doing 8 hours every day. Not exactly hobby use. Very funny on the ebola comments. For what its worth, when someone starts a statement with 'with respect' I usually find it on a par with 'Im not a racist, but' .... ie, you are calling me. I have sold hundreds of hammers, with hundreds of happy customers, and I spend many hours on the phone every week helping people with hammer questions, for no commercial gain, as many members of this forum will attest to. So, with respect, you are welcome to your opinion about comparing my after sales service to a used ebola contamination suit but I think your reasoning is flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Alan, yes, typo in post 5.... It should read 2.2kw ( 3 H.P ) ! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Nonjic, I'm not a motor mechanic and I'm using this as an example so,if a mate asked me to replace the clutch on his car and I charged him for the job mates rate or not and he's sold it to someone, and the clutch then failed? If that buyer was told the clutch was replaced say 3000km ago(by someone 'reputable') do you think the buyer would be wrong to expect it to under some form of g/tee? Either you did what was req. Or the not? End of story. If I make and/or modify a product( and get paid for it) my customer/s can and should expect it to be ''fit for purpose'' so if the copper roof on the Al Bateen palace fails and I get a call, I will get on the next available aircraft and go and fix it, I don't say hang on I did the work for your predecessor andor so I'm sorry lifetime means that of my pet gerbil or change of ownership or whichever comes first! It doesn't come down to guaranteeing the car it comes down to guaranteeing your and only your work! I acknowledge that I have no knowledge either positive or otherwise on service/ after or pre sale so The chirp about the Ebola suit may be somewhat extreme but it was in relation to your comment that seemed to come from the 'used car salesman's guide to moving less than prime merchandise ' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Please remember we are all on the same team here? No need for a smiths version of a football riot OK mates? let us focus on the machine in question, and not get hostile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larson Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 John is a very good bloke who has provided me things freely. This is not a forum for airing resentments and anger; just doesn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 The machines in question are good, I have already stated that in my opinion they are good hammers. I have also stated that I can not guarantee the work for what I consider to be very sensible reasons. The hammers were collected from my place by the owners choice of pallet company (less than container load transport), they will have then been moved to a depot in Birmingham, reloaded and then into storage in lincolnshire. They would then be loaded again, possibly back to a distribution hub, then down to Plymouth. If the hammers are damaged at any point and someone buys one, and iv'e not clearly stated the work isn't covered I could cop for 2 days work with an argument at the end of it. I commend your ethics that you would warrantee a 3000 km old clutch to a person that you don't know. How do you know they have not been slipping it and burnt it out prematurely, even though there is nothing wrong with the work? How do I know the OP was provided with a manual, and has undertaken a correct lubrication regime on the hammer? As with cars, if you want a full guarantee buy a new one. I have got them in stock, for about £1000/ more than the 7 year old ones. I did not state this earlier because i'm not 'all about the sale' car salesman type, or you could buy a used one from a dealer who carries transit insurance who will guarantee the machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Hi All, if I may address a couple of things as this point, firstly I have no 'beef' with Nonjic, and /or his company and certainly no anger nor aggression towards him! If anything his last post his last post irked only due to the fact that he pointed out that the OP only saves 20% by not acquiring new? Seems like a 'no brainer' from that point of view. Many members ask questions as they feel that they will get a 'pool of answers' and thus be able to form a sort of 'educated opinion ' and I believe that in general the 'system' works. The OP asked " is this the hammer you guys would buy if you were in my position?" or thereabouts. :) while I admire nonjic's restraint in not wanting to queer the sellers pitch, he could possibly have asked 'have you considered a new machine?' @Blackleaf, I bought a non working 1926 model of a 200 kg hammer and shipped it to Johannesburg. I paid way more for it than you would pay for a new machine from John. In fact I paid more in transport as well. I love the hammer and have never regretted it ever. That said it was a labor of love and possibly/probably not the most economic route. It is however probably the only tool I own where I haven't wished it was 'the bigger model' . Most 'blacksmithing ' equipment was made to be readily maintainable and was expected to be rode hard and put away wet so don't be too concerned about 'not in production anymore' and think more 'do I have? Or can I acquire the skillset to fix this thing? Do I have the time to do this? And lastly is this what I need and is it going to pay for itself soon? Dependent on the type of work that you have/want to have a 25kg hammer may suit your type of work, both Alan and I would go for a larger one providing you have the need power supply,space and budget. All this presupposes that you can also source said hammer! I would seriously consider taking nonjic up on his generous offer and ask him if he would help you get in touch with some of his customers near you in order to see(and possibly try out) that size of hammer, should you find that you need/want a bigger version he may extend his largess to include a larger version. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 @ Steve Sells and John Larson...For what it is worth I had been following with interest what I took to be a perfectly civil discussion between articulate and mature posters, requiring neither moderation nor partisan support. I had always wondered about the non-transference of warranty to secondary owners and I am now better informed thanks to their discussion. I did not find any of their posts "riotous, hostile, resentful or angry". That seemed to be introduced to the thread by yourselves! The hyperbole about the Ebola suit, on a par with ianinsa's usual sense of humour, was fielded in good part as it was intended by nonjic. (no offence ianinsa! :) ) @ blackleafforge...I am evidently not as experienced as ianinsa suggested though, I am completely out of touch regarding current prices for new hammers. I agree with ianinsa, that the extra 1000 would be well worth finding in order to buy a new and guaranteed hammer from nonjic given your situation and if a 25kg. one will be adequate for you. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 @ Steve Sells and John Larson...For what it is worth I had been following with interest what I took to be a perfectly civil discussion between articulate and mature posters, requiring neither moderation nor partisan support. I had always wondered about the non-transference of warranty to secondary owners and I am now better informed thanks to their discussion. I did not find any of their posts "riotous, hostile, resentful or angry". That seemed to be introduced to the thread by yourselves! The hyperbole about the Ebola suit, on a par with ianinsa's usual sense of humour, was fielded in good part as it was intended by nonjic. (no offence ianinsa! :) ) I feel so lucky to have you here to let me know that the posts I recieved about watching out for potential problems in here was imagined, thank you. I wish I had your ability to know all and see all, rather than read posts and make a decision for myself. :) even if all the information I had about it is not visible here in this thread now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 It is always a judgment call as to when to step in and redirect a discussion. Many times we err on too soon as we have seen the results of too late and have had to clean up a the mess that stepping in too late can cause. Discuss the issues but do not let it get personal. Remain friends so you can enjoy a pint later. If a dealer said he looked over a machine, fixed any problems he found, and offers you a test drive, then you should not fault him for not stepping into a 3rd party ownership or transpiration situation that he has no control over. Let the 3rd party or the transporter guarantee their work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I feel so lucky to have you here to let me know that the posts I recieved about watching out for potential problems in here was imagined, thank you. I wish I had your ability to know all and see all, rather than read posts and make a decision for myself. :) even if all the information I had about it is not visible here in this thread now. If this was written to be taken at face value then..."thank you, it was my intention to be helpful" If is was written with sarcasm in mind which I rather suspect, then apologies are in order….I apologise, it is not my place to be a moderator. I am sorry that my attempt to pour oil on troubled water had the opposite effect of fuelling the fire, or at least keeping the embers alight, if you will pardon the mixed metaphor. You are right, I was not in possession of all the facts. I had thought your comments pertained to the foregoing visible posts, I was not aware they referred to things that the ordinary members of the forum could not see. I apologise for my presumption, and will bear this in mind in the future. While in contrition mode I must also apologise to the OP for adding and causing to be added more off-topic posts. I hope the value of the positive contributions I had made earlier goes some way in balance. I do appreciate the fine line you must have to walk as a moderator, and in order to be clear, I intend you to take this post at face value, no "side". Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Actually it is your place to step in where you see an error. This forum is easier to manage because of the fact that many of the members all assist. The problem I had was when it appeared I was getting my hands slapped by you for doing my job here, I did recieve a PM about a problem growing in this thread. In the past when this has happened, it has been the start of some unplseant eruptions, so I have learned to bark, before it gets to where I have to bite. Steve In service to Iforgeiron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Alan and others ALWAYS let us know whenever a thread is getting over heated or out of hand. Each viewer can push the report button at the bottom of each post alerting the Mods and Admins to go look at that thread. We need to know so we can fix it.Most times I simply suggest that we need to realign our anvils to North and that takes care of things. We encourage the exchange of ideas and discussion in such a way everyone remains friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Sorry guys, I probably have not helped things along with taking an off the cuff comment a bit to seriously. I try and keep out of lots of threads like this, as there is occasionally an undertone of 'hes got a vested interest' trying to make a quick buck , and I don't want to use forums for 'free advertising' or promoting a product in other related threads, and the references to 'hammer dealers' somehow grates a little ( a bit to much like the car industry ?). I doubt there are many people making much of a return on their time and money selling / making small power hammers ! Its not easy 'staying out of it' sometimes when there are always threads like ' 'i'm going to buy this 'bargain' old hammer' i'm sure it will be great, and lots of people agree, and then people say 'why not make one, its very easy', when what i'm thinking is just buy a decent manageable sized commercial one, and get it making you money next week !!! (not said with reference to this thread though). I visit forums like this one, not to sell hammers, but to keep learning about using them, which I love doing, and don't get enough time doing ! Anyhoo, i'm rambling a bit, hope the gist of what I mean comes across OK in the above ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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