Did I wreck my anvil face?

[Anachronist58]

 

 

Yikes!! :wacko:

[John McPherson]

To add to the confusion, my personal observations. (YMMV)   If someone would care to do Rockwell comparisons of a range of test subjects, I would love to see it. I am a geek like that.

 

I have found that many old hammers are higher carbon steels and/or harder tempered. There are definitely harder than newer hammer heads, more prone to chip, and less likely to need constant dressing to remove dings in the face. It has been stated that manufacturers are making everything from hammers to lawn mower blades softer to avoid lawsuits from shrapnel, and that makes sense from a liability standpoint.

 

Grinding or sanding on the face of an anvil seems to remove a few thousandths of an inch of work hardened metal, leaving it more prone to damage from a errant blow. On older anvils with a plow steel face, it would make sense that the further towards the core, the softer the temper.

 

I have an century old hundred pound Mousehole that I just cleaned up with sandpaper, and a dull file will skate on it, it is harder than a bankers heart. A chisel will mark it, barely. It laughs at hammers. I also have a solid cast 150 Kg Euroanvil that I do not let students near; while **I** have never left a mark on it, a student dinged it several times within the first two minutes of class. :o I call him Lightnin', 'cuz he never strikes the same place twice!

 

When hardened hammer meets softened anvil, especially a corner of a tipped hammer, damage will happen. Practice safe 'smithing, dress your hammer faces.

[arftist]

To add to the confusion, my personal observations. (YMMV)   If someone would care to do Rockwell comparisons of a range of test subjects, I would love to see it. I am a geek like that.

 

I have found that many old hammers are higher carbon steels and/or harder tempered. There are definitely harder than newer hammer heads, more prone to chip, and less likely to need constant dressing to remove dings in the face. It has been stated that manufacturers are making everything from hammers to lawn mower blades softer to avoid lawsuits from shrapnel, and that makes sense from a liability standpoint.

 

Grinding or sanding on the face of an anvil seems to remove a few thousandths of an inch of work hardened metal, leaving it more prone to damage from a errant blow. On older anvils with a plow steel face, it would make sense that the further towards the core, the softer the temper.

 

I have an century old hundred pound Mousehole that I just cleaned up with sandpaper, and a dull file will skate on it, it is harder than a bankers heart. A chisel will mark it, barely. It laughs at hammers. I also have a solid cast 150 Kg Euroanvil that I do not let students near; while **I** have never left a mark on it, a student dinged it several times within the first two minutes of class. :o I call him Lightnin', 'cuz he never strikes the same place twice!

 

When hardened hammer meets softened anvil, especially a corner of a tipped hammer, damage will happen. Practice safe 'smithing, dress your hammer faces.

 

 

 

Good post. The main reason I am opposed to grinding, sanding or especially  milling a face is simply removing material making it closer the the one I have with the plate worn entirely through. (Obviously it was used for a single operation for decades, perhaps most of the life of it's owner or even his father or son as well. Interesting that I found it on Nantucket.)

Your points though, that hardened tool steel is usually harder near the surface and also the repeated hammering for many decades will cause further work hardening are valid and should be remembered.

 

As an aside, the blacksmith's method of hardening does leave a hammer more prone to excess hardness at the edges, where quenching is instant and a softer striking face.

Not really up on the latest, greatest custom hammer making adventures but I imagine some of the newer tool steels (not 1050) and especially heat treating ovens which are available to the everyday person these days have changed this scenario somewhat.

 

(ducking all the unknown truck axel hammers hardened in a fire and chip free being hurled at me).

 

My point is just that many of my very old hammers have a chip or two in the edges and the custom hammers I see at people's anvils are pristine for the most part.

Of course the amount and type of usage have substantially changed since artistry has for the most part replaced utility in the blacksmith's shop.

[ThomasPowers]

New student == Soft Hammer  (though I will often ask to use the student's hammer when they ask for help to gently show them it's not the hammer's fault...)

 

As for the blacksmith's method of hardening---do you mean the one where you do the face temper using a heated ring around the edges or some other blacksmith's method?

[Anachronist58]

John McPherson and Arftist - Good Posts.  IFI makes me smarter! :)

 

Yesterday, between posts on this thread I was working two tools (one of which, Mr. McPherson, is a hot cut for my "Craigslist rail anvil" that my uncle roughed out for me 20 years ago- :rolleyes: )  on my milled (.025") Soderfors 88#. Were I not an Idiot Savant with hammering, I would have been very frustrated. One wishes to do his heavy forging over the center of mass, no? ).%C2%A0%20%C2%A0%20But%20I%20am%20fully%20qualified%20to%20perform%20that%20type%20of%20quality%20controlled%20operation%C2%A0'>).  %C2%A0%20But%20I%20am%20fully%20qualified%20to%20perform%20that%20type%20of%20quality%20controlled%20operation 

 

I was drawing out and trying to maintain a controlled fillet behind a finish-machined feature.

 

There is a reason for this Potential frustration that would be best addressed in it's own Thread:  Ergonomics in Manual Operations. In short, small manual target zones contribute to sub-par work conditions.  I am not advocating against the two square inch anvil, per se.

 

Mr. Geek, by Dead Reckoning, I would put my anvil at ~45Rc. I consider that "soft". And yet, Furious Beating on Tough and Hard  steel last night failed to booger my anvil face.

 

This speaks to Mr. Powers "New Student = Soft Hammer" and John McPherson's pal "Lightnin".  I am convinced that My Soderfors previous life was in "The Corner of Shame" in some classroom  setting :wacko:

Robert Taylor

 

[arftist]

New student == Soft Hammer  (though I will often ask to use the student's hammer when they ask for help to gently show them it's not the hammer's fault...)

 

As for the blacksmith's method of hardening---do you mean the one where you do the face temper using a heated ring around the edges or some other blacksmith's method?

I just mean the one using colors and judgement and skill and experience as opposed to those using a computerized atmospherically controlled heat treating ovens.

 

No offence meant or implied. Both work if you are good at them. One requires less reliance upon vision and judgement skills.

[arftist]

Anyone who milled 25 thousands off the soderfus knew what they were doing. Such is not always the case.