Tongs (first set help) Q&A

[rhornback]

Hey everyone, I am planning on starting my first set of tongs this weekend if the weather allows. Based on availability and cheapness I’m planning on using re-bar, now with limited tools and resources, what would anyone suggest as far as making these bad boys. Mostly going to be used to pick up ax heads and blades? Any help is beyond appreciated. I’m most concerned about punching a hole for the rivet, and I don’t really have any punches, which I intend to make using the tongs. 

[Dan C]

Based on my experience with rebar and the time it's going to take to forge a set of tongs, I'd spend the little extra money and buy mild steel instead.  The tools I've made out of rebar that are put under any tension quickly broke and that's not something you want to happen when handling red hot steel.  It's not only inconvenient when they break, it can be very dangerous.  The only thing I trust rebar now for is a firerake or poker, and steak flippers.

 

Just read another posting regarding rebar for tongs, maybe I'm off target based on the responses there, but the ones I made broke at the jaw. 

[metalmangeler]

check out Brian Brazeal's vidieo on tong making. I would expect you will need multiple tongs for either knife blades or ax heads so plan accordingly.

[Stefflus]

Making makeshift tools to make better tools is in my opinion the funnest part of smithing.

If you have some way of cutting the punch from it's parent stock you really shouldn't need tongs to make a punch. If coil spring is the parent stock, then this means you need to straighten a longer piece than you need for the punch. Also, in a pinch, you could make a makeshift punch from mild steel if it was intended for one time use, provided the workpiece was really hot and you were gentle with the punch. You could probably even make this as an angled tool at the end of the parent stock if you had no way of cutting it free.

[Bigcity]

You could use a drill to make the hole a 5/16" or 3/8" bit should be good enough in a pinch 

[Francis Trez Cole]

First I would have no trouble using re bar. I have had mild steel tongs break as well. The biggest thing is to use large enough stock to make the tongs. For most of my tongs I start with 3/4" stock. Glenn has posted a chart of the different dimensions of the parts of the tongs. That being said start out making flat jaw tongs the key is to get the 3 steps mastered. the Jaws that holds the metal. The boss that is the area the holds the rivet and the reins. with limited resources I would find a cheep drill and buy a good drill bit to make your holes. Since you are just starting out it is better to have a good hole in the center of your boss. Once you have forged out your tong blanks let them cool slowly do not quench them. hope this helps

[VaughnT]

So you've never made a set of tongs before, and don't know how to make them..... but you're planning on using them for holding axes and knives?  Why do I get the impression that someone's jumping the gun a bit?

[rhornback]

VaghnT you would be correct in assuming that, I most likely am jumping the gun a little bit. I have made and practiced a few items now, and am currently trying to make a hawk for a family member for Christmas. Like mentioned above my tools are limited, as well as experience. But one must first try before he can fail, am I right? From what I’ve learned in the little experience I’ve had smiting is that the most important this about smiting is you have to do it. So that’s what I’m doing. I can watch YouTube and read until my head hurts but w/o ever touching fire to steel ill learn everything that I put into it, how to read better and how to enlarge videos. Thanks for the comments everyone, ill post some pics as soon as i can. 

[VaughnT]

While I don't fault your drive and determination, I really must question your ability.  This isn't a slam on you as a person or as a potential smith, however.  Entirely too often we see new guys want to jump into the deep end of the pool and then get frustrated and quit because their end product is nowhere near what they were aiming for.

 

If you have no experience playing basketball except in your back yard, you should not expect to play in the NBA.  Axes and knives are the NBA of blacksmithing.

 

That you would ask how to make tongs, not sure about getting a hole for the rivet, speaks volumes.  While you might want to make a hawk for a Christmas gift, I would encourage you to take a step back from the anvil and re-evaluate what you can turn out in a respectable fashion.  If you don't know how to make tongs, you will not make a decent tomahawk and the end product could get someone seriously hurt.

 

There are probably a hundred different chisels and punches that you could make, advancing your skill level and building a cache of tools.  And if you spend the next year making nothing but simple tools, you will be far better off than just jumping in the deep end and getting frustrated.

[Everything Mac]

Blacksmithing is very much a case of baby steps. I (like many) started out thinking I'd be making swords by the end of the week - I'm 7 years down the line and a 10" blade is as far as I've got towards that goal. But my point is that there is an awful lot to learn when you start out. 

 

Many guys have trouble even manipulating the work with a pair of tongs to begin with.

 

 

I appreciate this all sounds very negative but we can all assure you it is not meant to be. 

 

My suggestion is the same for everyone starting out. Start off making the tools you need for your fire. I prefer a slightly pointed rake but many make a poker as well. 

 

Then i suggest you make one of these

http://kossknives.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/blacksmith-knife-viking-knife.html

 

You'll find it contains several processes that are used in smithing all the time - drawing out, making a scroll and twisting. Not to mention good hammer technique for finishing the blade. 

 

Make a few and you will notice a distinct improvement from your first to your 3rd. - They make nice letter openers for Christmas presents. Make it from high carbon steel if you want a live blade. 

 

 

As for your tongs - you can manage without them for a while by using long stock - ie long enough for you to hold while working on it. But you might find buying your very first set handy if you have ZERO tongs at all. I bought one pair and made the rest. 

I found the cost of new tongs prohibitive at the time and spent time on ebay finding a pair that went for a price within budget. 

 

There are numerous (thousands) of guides on how to make a set of tongs on the internet so get googling. - this step by step for example

http://ep.yimg.com/ty/cdn/yhst-17797617870419/twistjawtongs.pdf

 

Youtube is also a great learning tool for us amateurs. I dread to think how much I've learned from a few hours watching other smiths at work on there.

 

You can make punches from old car suspension springs (coil springs) - just straighten them out and shape appropriately. 

You don't HAVE to punch the hole - there's no shame in drilling the hole for your first set or even your first few sets. 

 

 

Don't be discouraged by the negativity - just crack on and have fun with it. 

 

Only other bit of advice is to purchase your PPE (personal protective equipment) - Apron, glasses and ear protectors are a non negiotiable must. 

 

Andy

[arkie]

rhornback,

 

When I first started, I had no tongs.  Needed to begin making some, but alas, visegrips were a bit short.  In a lurch, I grabbed a set of old pliers with bent handles that I no longer used.  I straightened them out and welded some 1/2" rod to them.  Now, I had something to use as temporary tongs while making others.  They are in the "museum" now.  :)

 

 

 

[Ridgewayforge]

I would recommend using a bought pair of tongs first. That way you get to feel what a tong does, and you can then judge your made tong off of it.

[rhornback]

Thanks for the advice everyone, Andy funny you mentioned the “bushcraft” knife as a first, I have already produced a rough image of the one in the link, it was a fun project and I intend on making a few more. I made a set of tongs, they are not pretty but serve the purpose well, I  made a punch from an old hex key I found in my old wood shop. It worked well w/o hardening it. My wife who despises my costly hobbies was even impressed with the turn out. I’m not starting out w/o any knowledge of the basics of hand crafted work; I’ve spent some hours with advanced smiths so I understand the principals of techniques in this trade. VaghnT if I came off as rude I apologize, my forge was being a pain in my drum that day, so my frustration might have come out in my writing. But thank you again everyone for your ideas and mentoring. 

[VaughnT]

You turned an old hex key into a punch to make the rivet hole?  Sounds like a solid bit of thinking outside the box!  Good job.

 

Remember, metal scrap can come from the oddest of places ya gotta keep your eyes open.  I just found a power pole guy anchor so far back into the woods you can't help but wonder how it got there.  I'm glad it did, though, as I've now got five feet of heavy stock that I can make more tools out of.

[rhornback]

Thanks Vaughn, I'd post a pic of the tongs, but as i said they are ugly. i went yesterday and got some mid-steel to make a nicer set. im having an issue tho and maybe yo can help. i cant get the jaws to look right, they end up looking funny. I need to really focus on my techniques, and slow down. any suggestions for beginner projects that can assist on this, and any good reading materials/videos, ive looked all over the YouTube but everything is about a spcific project.

[VaughnT]

Watch Brian's video on youtube and do exactly like you see him doing.  The visual is perfect, even with the sound turned off.  The problem comes when folks try to adapt and change things to suit themselves.  If the teacher tells you to add 2+2, don't go multiplying 3x7.  If you do, you can't complain about the results.

 

The funny jaws?  All depends on what funny means.  Could be a problem with the face of your hammer, lack of understanding on the hammer techniques, bad hits, missed steps or stages in the process.   Lots of things can go wrong, or look like they're going wrong.  The thing about experience is that you can see the problems creeping up on you, or know a way to correct for those issues.

 

It'll come in time.

[Ridgewayforge]

I will second VaughnT, Brian's video is what I based my first pair of tongs off of, and they turned out okay. I changed a couple of minor things, which I believe is why they didn't turn out great. His work should be memorized several times, maybe done cold in clay before heading to the forge.