Changes in my views

[Rich Hale]

i moved to this forum when it opened. Hungry for knowledge of any kind i could get from anyone willing to share. I still almost daily come here for the same thing. But now I have different "Needs" if you will; Now more and more I want to see posts by someone that has the skills to tell me wot i need. Someone that is knowledgeable and has shop time and background to support wot they say. Why so picky now when I was not then?,,,,simply put the bar has been raised. the knowledge base here now is quite extensive and fabulous. We have postings and shared informatiioon from the best in the world on a regular timeline. Daily I read posts in here from those folks and am so glad they took the time from there day to share something with us.

And almost qas often I find posts with answers from folks unfamiliar to me that are direct and come from someone willing to share and are for sure knowledgeable about wot they type.

I do have a list in my mind of folks that I look for in here and I read most of wot they share even if it is not something I am likely to be involved in...learning is like that to me. i also look at subject titles for anything of rermote interest now or later,,,whenever that may be.

If I read something that to me is off the beaten path I first ask myself where the information is coming from and why it seems foreign to me. If I can find information that supports my  thoughts i will at times ask for more about them..in some case pictures of their work..or about where they learned or for published information. And in other cases..one not long ago that caused me to rethink and relearn something I had not done well with in the past.

Then I weigh the information: Am I messed up in this thread or should I listen to new data? Can go either way. But often when I ask for more information about background and history including pics i get limited information...no answer at all or just wot i need to decide.

Thanks so much to all of those that take the time in here to sit and type reliable information for us to learn from.

 

 

 

[DSW]

Well said Rich. There speaks the wisdom of experience.

[Jim Coke]

Greetings Rich,

 

I understand that you feel the way you do..  But lets put in in perspective .   I too have been around the horn .. with metal so to speak  some  40 years and still consider myself as but a student..  It's the old bucket thing... you my friend are working with a bucket of knowledge that is close to the top and are looking for things that will bring you closer to the top..  Many of the post that we respond to are ( been there done that ) type of things but you must admit it does rekindle what you have already experienced and gives you new food for thought..   You are one that I watch and value what you share more than you could ever know.. Lets keep the faith and when we respond to a thread take it for what its worth offer what we can and forge on..  I always remember what Francis said before he passed...  I HAVE SO MUCH TO LEARN...  

 

Respectfully

Jim

[ThomasPowers]

Learning how to evaluate sources is a basic skill when doing research whether reading medieval texts or on-line discussions.  I fall down for many people in that I don't deal with pictures.  As I'm tossing this stuff out upon the waters it doesn't bother me if folks ignore it.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Rich, you certainly one of the folks on my list.
If its a thread your learning from, I probably need more experience to fallow it. I remember starting at the shoeing school. One of the instructors was a artistic blacksmith that had come to the school a few years earlier. For the first month it was exiting to watch him forge a set of shoes (infact the MFC brand of shoes is based on hand made shoes he forged) but he was so fast and efficient you couldn't learn a thing, as you just didn't understand enough of what was going on to see it. After 6 weeks you still watched him, but now you could catch the neuances of what he was doing. All he ever did in his own practice was handmade shoes, on a London patern, no turning cams, clip horns or other farrier cheats.
Some of you folks are like that, I can usually fallow what is being discussed but other times I'm off on a few days I research and lab work.
Thanks for your contributions, and thanks to the people you have learned from.

[ThorsHammer82]

there isn't a single person in this thread thus far that I don't consider to be a wealth of valuable information in the craft of metal working. all of you are masters compared to where I stand at the children's table. I soak up as much as my feeble brain can in a single sitting on the little time I have to soak it up. alas my hammer time is extremely limited due to work and two very young kids but I do what I can when I can and I'm learning, absorbing, and sharing what I can. I don't claim to be a master I don't even claim to be an apprentice at this point. And I for one thank you for your crumudgeony, and some times harsh responses. I have spent half my life working with metal. from welding to now blacksmithing. I can't get enough of it. it was an addiction the moment I sent electricity flying and made molten mental do my bidding. having a source such as this is such a blessing in these days where craftsman and crafts themselves are dying out in this world. where there used to be a smith in every township to have someone within a days drive now in some places is a blessing. To collect the thousands of hours of experience in one place for all to share and access from around the globe is something that never could have happened 30 years ago. something that many people take for granted. I'm just glad to be able to take part in that.

 

Jim,

 

if I may give a suggestion. one way I've found that gets me over road blocks, be it mental, physical, or theoretical is to take a step back and try to learn something from the beginning from someone else entirely. setting aside the "been there, done that" mentality on some things can sometimes open up a whole new road to travel from the same starting point. Not to mention having the experience of traveling down a similar road once already will allow you to pick up on things that you may have missed the first time down it.

[Charles R. Stevens]

TH, at some point when your skill platos try teaching. Seeing things from a beginners eyes causes you to reavaluate how you do things, especially shines a light on your bad habits.
As to being included in the likes of Rich, Tommas and DSW. I'm flatterd, as I look to them for new information and technic

[DSW]

Teaching others definitely makes you take a long hard look a why and how you do things. Little things that you really never thought about become so much more important and as a result, usually your skills improve. Most people never really think about the how and why, they just "do". Once you step back and examine all the details of what you are doing, it's easy to focus on the ones you have that need improvement and you are better able to spot those things others are doing that might be better than the way you are.

 

I tell students all the time, what they really lack is a good reference. Without the reference it's like trying to explain "red" to a blind person. The only person who can really help them learn this is themselves. However once they begin to "get" it, all of a sudden it becomes so much easier for them to learn and expand their skill set.

 

Looking back now I can really see several of my instructors that I'd love to work with again. At the time I lacked the references to truly understand what they were trying to get across. I learned from them, but was unable to absorb and understand a vast amount of what they had to pass on. I simply didn't understand then how much I really didn't know.

 

 

I've made it a point over the last 3 or 4 years to try and take at least one class each year, either to learn something new that I didn't know before or to take a class that is aimed at improving skills I already have.

[yahoo2]

I think it is the little hidden gems of information that makes it worthwhile, it took me two years of looking from a distance to decide to join this forum, I was discouraged by all the railway iron anvil posts, inane nonsense that gets regurgitated constantly and flippant dismissal of techniques and science that some regard as not "traditional"  without much thought or examination. The thing that prompted me to join in the end was not being able to see a photo of something I didn't understand from the text and could not find anywhere else. I have found the site has "grown" on me as well, the same as Rich has observed.

 

I now realise I don't have to read or respond to everything here and I understand there is no obligation to post info from my area of expertise but by the same token I feel obliged (now that I'm here) to cobble together at least two quality topics or posts a year that I think would interest or challenge the other members to look at things a little differently or to see a wider scope of blacksmithing as practical engineering not a dying art.

 

I enjoy the friendly banter and subtle wit and humour that keeps things ticking along from day to day.

 

very content with it all

[basher]

well, my take on it all is that you only know what you know (if you are lucky)  and you defiantly dont know what you don't know...

 now the problem is that some of the things that you don't know can seem to run contrary to what you do know....when you first get to know about them.

 Mostly we just chose a narrow set of things to know in order to keep it all simple..... Makes sense really.

 

 and what Rich Hale says about only trusting information from known sources makes sense too.

 

 The problem is that we also have no clues as to who may know the stuff that we don't know.... so..... wonderful info can come from every direction and place and every kind of person . Often these people are not from the safe and trusted set of people you have vetted.

 

 I have a set of  working methods that are proven to me, around that are a set of methods that are not proven by my trial but come from trusted sources and around that are lots of wild off centre ideas that can come from any source internal and external.

 I am constantly pulling the outriding ideas in and trying them on, sometimes they can whirl for a decade or two just as ideas....

 

 Sometimes an idea from here immediately seems like a workable useful one , to take a recent example :-

Using superglue to hold bits of damascus together before welding . Im thinking does this really work ? wow it would be cool if it did. so I stash it as a mental possability.

 I was demonstrating at a forge in weekend before last and talking about the trixy bit of pattern welding I was doing and how good it would be  if I could superglue it all together whilst I assembled it and a few of the audience affirmed that they did this ( one of them Was Hank Knickmayer who is an amazing Damascus maker and a known and trusted font of info)

 

 so a good idea from here now has back up and I will try it and see if it works its self into my normal practice.

 

 What I really like about this site is the breadth of info  that is brought to bare . I am constantly learning from here.

[rockstar.esq]

Basher,

 

Well said.  I recall reading on some of histories greatest minds.  Many advances in science and technology have come from newcomers to the field.  Institutional inertia can and does influence the perception of the problem which can influence how it's approached.

 

Aristotle said : "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it". 

 

I know I've caught myself correcting something my kid said only to realize that they had a good point from their perspective.  I have had only a few really good teachers in my life - I learned anyway.  

 

It may be off topic but I once took a class entitled "Art appreciation".  At the end of the semester the teacher asked for feedback on how the class could be improved.

 

I pointed out that course's name was misleading because we really covered the history of art in Western Civilization.  The teacher countered by saying that understanding the historic relevance of a piece is critical to appreciating it.

 

I replied that people appreciate art for many reasons beyond historical significance.  

 

This forum brings people with very divergent interests together.  Explaining an aspect of blacksmithing from an unfamiliar perspective may illuminate the "piece" differently and expose under-appreciated details.  

 

I find I must resist a tendency to be curmudgeonly - I find that repeating myself and listening to others repeat themselves fills the air and dulls the sound of something new.  Basically, I try to find something new to say or I try to remain quiet.

[Robert Yates]

While I have posted very little of my work here or on any forum for that matter , there are many Brother smiths I hold in very high regards as to their work and information Yes I have butted heads with many a smith over many different aspects of forging and the information supplied . Note I never stop learning or trying new things . yes Rich ,Steve, Basher, Geoff Keys, Gary mullkey, and quite a bit of others that I will not list as we are limited in space and time . I also love the New guys that have brought forging to a new level with new Ideas even though they are not traditional to the old world forging aspects,designs,and ways of doing things.

 

Yes I fit into the post/class that Rich was mentioning . LOL ;)

 

Sam 

[John McPherson]

I think that we all come here looking for answers, bouncing ideas around to get responces. If we happen to have a nugget of knowledge to add to the treasure trove that is this place, so much the better.

 

A great forum is like a great pot-luck lunch. Everyone brings their special homemade dish that they have perfected to the table to share. Hopefully I have more to bring than a bag of stale Cheetos. ;)