Faulty forge

[Steelfinger]

Hey guys.

 

So I got my first forge running, and was really excited to work with it, but then I realized it sucked.

I sat some aluminium in there for a while, and pulled it out several minutes later whole, somewhat workable, but it was also refusing to bond.

 

I'm worried, as I want to start working with iron and steel, but if I cant even do aluminium properly, how am I supposed to do something like tool steel?

 

I attatched a few pictures of my forge. Hopefully you guys can help me out. Its a modified 2-brick forge, using 4 bricks, as I couldn't work the cylindrical groove into the centre.

The pictures includes my forge set up,

the forge running,

my torch (its a heavy duty pencil torch burner),

and the orange glow I get from far off

 

Please do keep in mind, Im poor. I can't spend a lot of money. I've invested a lot into this project and I'm faced with challenge everywhere.

[VaughnT]

Is that a propane tank, or butane?

 

Also, did you let the bricks come up to temperature before putting metal in, or did you light the torch and then stick the metal in?

 

Lots of variables, even on a two-brick forge.

[DSW]

You have a fairly large thermal mass and a tiny burner. It's going to take awhile to get things to heat up.

[jmccustomknives]

You'd  be better off building a wood burning forge.  That little rig would be good for little more than 1/4 and less material. 

[Rich Hale]

There is a lot of information on forges here....solid fuel and gassers...Bypassing that information did not work for you maybe doing some home  work may get you where you wish to be with the least amount of time and money. Quite often on here we see the same thing,,, a Build that does not work and efforts lost. Not trying to be harsh,,but give the forums a fair try.

[SoCal Dave]

I would switch to mild steel and stay away from aluminum.  It's melting point is about 1,200 degree F. Try small diameter pieces of steel and the other suggestion. Good luck.  

[Bruno C.]

Iron_Bear,

 

Re-Read Rich Hales advice.  Second,  judging from your pictures... I would say your torch is too small, and your brick forge is not conducive to laminar heat flow.  In other words,  your heat is hitting one spot and concentrating there, as opposed to moving around in a nice even flow through-out your heat chamber.   I would try again using only 1 brick,  and maybe a hole cutting saw or large wood paddle bit to create your heat chamber.  With such a setup you can only expect limited results.   Don't think it will get hot enough to weld aluminium, and only hot enough to move small amounts of  iron/steel, probably 3/8" diameter tops.   Learn about your materials, learn about temperatures required, learn about getting required heat, but most of all just learn.    Working metal is not impossible or even that tricky, just more specific in nature.  Keep at it and you'll figure it out.  Look-up charcoal, hair dryers, blowers, one-brick forges.   If all else fails, save your pennies and invest in a good product that has been well made and will get you on your way to forging, that might make your transition to knowledge more bearable.

 

Good Luck

 

-Bruno

[Steelfinger]

http://makingcustomknives.com/how-to-build-a-forge/

 

I was going off of this forge originally. I found gutting the inside of the bricks tedious, so I just modified it into a 4 brick forge.

but I see what you guys are saying.

 

 

Im thinking I can do this with the bricks I have. worst case its another six dollars.

but I also dont think I let the bricks heat up. I kind of assumed it was the heat source I needed, and the bricks were extra to that. like I put the metal under heat, and the bricks helped keep that heat in.

 

now, before I do anything else as a newb, Im thinking ill do the video forge, but Ill put a vent in from the back, and maybe have an extra brick on the opening to help stop heat from escaping. I would like to ask though, my torch is an inch diameter. how big do I want the opening?

[Steelfinger]

sorry, Im just thinking with a one inch torch I want an opening larger than that for actually forging in.

but also, Im having trouble finding forges on the forum.

and if you guys have recomendations for forges, I'd appreciate them.

[Bruno C.]

Stick with what you can see in the video, and see if you can get that to work first,  then you can modify as necessary.    The larger the opening, the more heat you will need and more heat will escape.    Start small, learn what you can from the process, then make another if need be.  These small forge designs are not really meant to be super efficient  or that useful for production.  More for getting your feet wet with forging.  Like I said,  you are probably looking at 3/8"  to 1/2" diameter stock tops.  Anything bigger just wont really work in these small one brick forges.  Start small, and avoid making your own modifications until you have a good understanding of what is going on with the process.  Short-cuts will lead you to wasted effort and expense.   Follow the proven designs and focus on  getting those to work the way they are supposed to.

 

As far as forges go, there are many reputable companies.  Lookup Atlas Forge, Diamondback Forge, Chile Forge, NC Forge, and I'm sure there are more.  Depends on whether you want propane or coal.

If you can't find it here on the forums, there is this new Internet company out there, I believe they are called Google or something like that.  I think they may be able to help you as well :p

 

-Bruno

[Geoff Keyes]

There are a couple of problems that I see.  You didn't say whether your torch is propane or butane.  A butane torch probably doesn't have enough BTU's to heat the space you've got.  Second, fire bricks are not an insulator.  Fire brick is made from refractory cement.  Refractories resist the effects of heat and form a barrier against fire, but they don't act as an insulator.  The thermal mass of the brick has to be heated up to your working temperature before you can start heating your material.  In a forge built from an insulating material, like one of the ceramic fiber blankets, you only need to heat up the surface of the blanket before you can start to work.

As an example, I have 2 forges about the same size, and using the same blown burner.  One is lined with Kaowool with a IR reflective top coat.  At less than 1 psi of line pressure to the burner it is ready to start forging about 90 seconds after I light it.  The second forge is my welding forge.  It has a brick floor and a Kaowool hood.  The brick floor resists the effects of hot flux, but it takes 30-40 minutes to come up to working temperature, and it requires about 5-8 psi of line pressure to the burner.

If you could line your 4 brick forge with even a 1/2 inch of fiber blanket you'd find a dramatic difference in performance.

Your 4 brick forge is going to be pretty small for most sizes of steel, what is it that you want to make?  With more info, we might have better suggestions about the kind of forge that would work for you.

Geoff

[ThomasPowers]

Except for SOFT FIREBRICKS which are insulators and are what is used for 1 fire brick forges.

 

Now the "bond" issue were you trying to forge weld Al?  If so you won't have much luck even in a forge that melts it easily.

 

Also I'd only go up to about 5/16" stock in a 1 firebrick myself.

[Geoff Keyes]

I can't say for sure what the thermal mass of a soft fire brick is, anyone here actually know?  I have built about 25 forges, including all firebrick ones.  In my experience, even a soft brick forge has a much longer burn time to working temp than a Kaowool forge.  The ones I've actually timed are about 4-10 times slower to heat, for a given volume, for a given burner.

 

I have a two brick forge that I whipped up to HT springs in.  After using it twice, I built a coffee can forge with a scrap of Kaowool and a top coat of ITC100.  With the same plumbers torch it is ready to go in about 60 seconds, as opposed to nearly 10 minutes for the brick forge.  I laid down a coat of ceraset to seal the surface and a coat of ITC100.  This improved the action of the forge, but it is still 3-5 minutes to a working heat.

 

This is just my .02, no need to shout.

 

Geoff

[Dodge]

You seem to have posted to the very forum you can't find  http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/65-gas-forges/
Scroll through the 30 pages of gas forge topics and see if you can find answers to your question. Most many folks are not willing to re-type the answers over and over to the same question. In my humble opinion, there is enough info to build a burner and suitable forge to contain it for a fraction of what you had to spend on your torch. I see guys trying to use those plumbers torches with very limited success. I will throw you a bone however; From my experience I have learned that too much burner in too small a chamber is can be just as inaffective as too little burner in too large a chamber. The latter should be self explanitory but the former is a little harder to grasp but basically, what happens is too much heat is being blown out the openings an never having a chance to heat up the inside. On the other hand, I just don't think these plumbers torches are adequate to forge anything more than 1/4" round or square. Don't give up, though, but please do go look at some of the gas forge topics. Then after you have studied actual working forge ideas and still can't get something going, perhaps you may have a question that hasn't been answered several times before.