Carbon Steel

[Grem]

The internet is a wonderful thing indeed, I obtained a 2011 book on Metallurgy for non-metallurgists.

What is your opinion of using concrete as the foundry base?

As a heat resister that is. Obviously after setting I'd run it a little bit to clear out any liquid or moisture in the concrete.

I see a lot of people using like dirt and clay but I'm hearing concrete would be better.

[Grem]

in case you were wondering, the powerful internet has spoken

 

 

[ThomasPowers]

eschew regular concrete as it degrades with heat---that's how it's made after all

[Steve Sells]

The internet is a wonderful thing indeed, I obtained a 2011 book on Metallurgy for non-metallurgists.

What is your opinion of using concrete as the foundry base?

As a heat resister that is. Obviously after setting I'd run it a little bit to clear out any liquid or moisture in the concrete.

I see a lot of people using like dirt and clay but I'm hearing concrete would be better.

Grem, you really should read a LOT more first,  the moisture we are talking about is INSIDE the concrete that will casue the explosion, even 10 year after pouring, its part of the matrix.  Using fire brick and ramable refractory's are safer choices. I do not know where you heard that concrete is better, but avoid them and their avdice,

[Grem]

Haha thanks, that would have been bad.

I know there's plenty more to read, I just figured a book on metals and their properties so I could understand further what I want to work with would be a good addition to the list.

[ThomasPowers]

ASM Handbook(s)?  "Alloying Elements in Steel", "Tool steel, its uses and treatment for the practical mechanic",  Hrisoulas' blade forging books cover the common blade steels and how they are worked. ("The Complete Bladesmith, The Master Bladesmith, The Pattern Welded Blade")..."Steelmaking before Bessemer, vol 1 Blister steel, vol 2 Crucible steel"  "Sources for the History of the Science of Steel, 1532-1786", "The Knight and the Blastfurnace".....

[Grem]

Ah very helpful thanks.

[Frosty]

Grem, you really should read a LOT more first,  the moisture we are talking about is INSIDE the concrete that will casue the explosion, even 10 year after pouring, its part of the matrix.  Using fire brick and ramable refractory's are safer choices. I do not know where you heard that concrete is better, but avoid them and their avdice,

 

Portland cement is called Hydraulic Cement for a reason, without the moisture it's dirt. concrete doesn't dry it sets and continues to absorb moisture for centuries becoming stronger as it ages. During WWII it was discovered that making fortified positions from ancient structures were much more secure than recently poure concrete, even when the new structures had walls 20' thick. Artillery finally managed to knock a 500 year old tower down and the top 20' fell more than 200' and landed in one piece.

 

Anyway, heat concrete above a point and the water WILL turn to steam do it fast enough and it will spall, blowing chips all over the place. Pour molten iron on it and it WILL explode raining molten iron on you and everything within say about 100'.

 

Don't quote me but I recall my HS shop teacher telling us 10lbs. A coffee mug full, of molten iron has the equivalent explosive power as 1 case of 60% dynamite and is uncontrollable. One kid in shop class spilled a dipper of molten aluminum on the floor and it blew molten AL for a good 40' and was only contained by the hot area hood.

 

Dreams are good things but melting iron is a nightmare waiting to bite you, your family and anyone anywhere close.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Grem]

Well I'm not talking about melting iron at this point, I understand the dangers and believe me I'm not looking to remove my limbs anytime soon. Aluminum seems like a great thing to play with as it's cheap to by scrap, isn't AS dangerously intense, seems like something good to start with.

I have some tools around my garage and through my father I could build a waste oil burner, was just looking for suitable materials to use as far as the furnace itself.

 

I'm not about to build something I can't trust will hold up to the heat, I don't plan on attempting to make my own crucibles when something factory grade that I know will handle the heat is as inexpensive.

Sure my initial ideas were a little far fetched, but that's why I joined here, because I don't have the years of experience and almost limb burning mistakes, but I can learn from others.

[ThomasPowers]

And you show signs of *learning* from your reading!  Now do you know about ILL as a cheap method of getting books not generally found at your local public library---at your local public library?

 

 

</start gollum> we likes it; yes we does when they can learns without the nasty nasty scarses we do my precious...< end gollum/>

 

Funny thing molten metal is much more dangerous than glowing steel hundreds of degrees hotter than the molten stuff!  Hot steel will drop towards the center of the earth and stay there, molten metal will chase you down the hall!

[Grem]

Well yes, I can see how dropping a hot bar of steel would just drop and go down.
And where dropping a crucible of even like aluminum could splash or spread or turn into a giant mutate and rummage through your garbage at night.


wow the complete bladesmith, this is a great read.

[Rich Hale]

Whoa,,,,,,Thomas suggested that The Complete Bladesmith would offer you good information and the same day you say it was a good read,,,,,Seriously?

[Grem]

No I said it's a great read, meaning I'm in the process of reading it xD The wonderful world of e-books make obtaining them instantly more than possible. I had a couple hours of downtime before I had to run off to work. So I read a little bit.

[ThomasPowers]

Just remember; learning to blacksmith *before* you start learning to bladesmith will save you time money and grief!

 

Though it generally takes trying to complete a poorly forged blade to show folks what we mean by that!

[Grem]

Of course, that's why initially I was looking for someone local that had experience that would help me learn.

[Joe111]

Pounding ore into steel is much different than melting it for casting. Don't confuse the two.

 

About the only way you can do it on a small scale it melting it in a crucible (preferably zirconia) then refine it with an oxygen lance.

You can melt steel scrap either with a induction furnace.(Which you probably don't have access to) or in a oil or gas furnace.

You need a crucible with a cover.

Wear lots of protective gear and pay your insurance before you start.

Preheat the crucible

Fill the bottom 1/4 of the crucible with charcoal then add the steel to it is 3/4 full. Then fill the rest with charcoal and put it in an already hot (yellow) furnace.

You want as neutral of a flame as possible with the furnace so you can see the orange flame from the CO burning in the air as it excapes the furnace.

When the orange flame stops the steel is melted or the furnace wasent hot enough. You need bright yellow or higher heat for this. 

Shut off the furnace and open the furnace and crucible. Stick the lance (carbon) into the crucible with the o2 flowing and the molten steel will start to boil. It may spray everywhere) until the boiling subsides. The more impure the steel the longer it will boil. Pull it out and pour your ingot.

This will be a sort of mild steel. results will vary.

Now, there are many types of steel. Most require additions of ferro inoculants which you probably cannot get. But you can make yourself with much more investment and time.

You will also need a lab of some sort. Expences varies with education and experience.

If you have iron ore, start with a cupola, pour it into a crucible and lance it. It will however boil much more rapidly.

Ive done this many times. I don't recommend it to anyone who isn't a hardcore metal melter. It is dangerous, messy and very pyrotectnic. And did I say dangerous?

However. not many people can say they can do this either.

If you really are interested in this read everything you can about the subject before you start and have a partner to help. You need help.

[Grem]

Ah thank you, I do appreciate the information greatly. That actually did answer a question of mine as far as what type of crucible I should use for iron. I've been looking into Graphite from what I've been seeing on various places, those were about the highest heat rating I could find, but it would make sense to use Zirconia.
However I mentioned previously that I was giving up on iron casting until I became experienced with it. My initial ideas weren't informed well enough to really understand how dangerous it could be with very little effort.
However that's exactly why I came here, so I could develop the understanding and seek help from people that have done this for years.
I'm going to start with Aluminum and get into the grove of casting, I found a great refractory cement recipe, and a great waste oil burner blueprint.

All I need at this point is the money to go acquire the clay, build my forge and foundry, and start working with metals.


And to everyone I appreciate the input and the words of caution, it's given me a new light on all this and I can't wait to get into it.

[ThomasPowers]

so build a charcoal forge for nothing and start making and selling stuff to pay for your foundry!

[Grem]

That's the idea :D I still need the tools though. I have myself a makeshift anvil for now, I just need a decent hammer and some clay to build with. So I'm not that far away, but bills and such still get in the way.

[ThomasPowers]

Hole in the ground is pretty cheap.