ThorsHammer82 Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Spiritual?? I don't know. Blacksmiths, like all others, are good and bad, and do good and bad. I was reminded once that a Smith made the nails that cruified people, and many other insruments of torture. Me, I just make pretty stuff, for the most part. Blaming the maker for the use of a tool is like blaming Bach for Justin Beiber. The blacksmith who make the nails that crucified people was just making nails because someone asked him to make nails. He didn't know what they would be used for, and even if he did, a paying customer is a paying customer, and as many members here can attest, making a living as a blacksmith isn't exactly the easiest thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramdas Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 The smith with the tongs both worketh in the coals, and fashioneth it with hammers, and worketh it with the strength of his arms: yea, he is hungry, and his strength faileth: he drinketh no water, and is faint (isaiah 44:12) . I believe that this absolutely proves that the good lord loves blacksmiths and a pox on those who sayeth otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Blaming the maker for the use of a tool is like blaming Bach for Justin Beiber. The blacksmith who make the nails that crucified people was just making nails because someone asked him to make nails. He didn't know what they would be used for, and even if he did, a paying customer is a paying customer, and as many members here can attest, making a living as a blacksmith isn't exactly the easiest thing to do. If Bach was writting for Justin - You should blame him! The modern PC. thought of "don't blame the maker is a crock" The guy/company that made the Sarin gas and the guy/company that sold it to Syria is as guilty if not more so than the Assad regime! If you know its moraly reprihencable don't do/bye/make or sell it-period. I think/believe that you should do unto others as you would have them do unto you! That said I also believe in "an arm, leg, spleen And an eye for an eye" :) I think that smithing can be very "spiritual" and it can be a total grind usually more of the latter when you are making money and more an escape and thus spiritual when there are'nt deadlines or vast numbers of mindless repetitions to stupid deadlines. The folk who "follow the trade" as it were seem to be mostly the salt of the earth(whatever their induvidual beliefs or religion) and I for one feel blessed to find myself in their company! Sorry for the rant, Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I don't go much for the supernatural but I have found many hours of contentment at the forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 If Bach was writting for Justin - You should blame him! The modern PC. thought of "don't blame the maker is a crock" The guy/company that made the Sarin gas and the guy/company that sold it to Syria is as guilty if not more so than the Assad regime! If you know its moraly reprihencable don't do/bye/make or sell it-period. I think/believe that you should do unto others as you would have them do unto you! That said I also believe in "an arm, leg, spleen And an eye for an eye" :) I think that smithing can be very "spiritual" and it can be a total grind usually more of the latter when you are making money and more an escape and thus spiritual when there are'nt deadlines or vast numbers of mindless repetitions to stupid deadlines. The folk who "follow the trade" as it were seem to be mostly the salt of the earth(whatever their induvidual beliefs or religion) and I for one feel blessed to find myself in their company! Sorry for the rant, Ian your pointing out oppressive regimes who more than likely demanded those products, both gas, and nails in ancient times, under threat of death not only for the worker but for the workers family. Can you still blame them for making said product? I'm sorry but personal accountability only comes into play when free will is allowable. the same reason why some people are convicted of war crimes and some people were just following orders. a drunk driver hits a pedestrian, you don't blame the car maker. Someone get's fat, you don't blame the person who made the fork and spoon. Sorry to derail the thread, but you need to take into account all the variables before you place blame. and I'm sorry. I refuse to call a craftsman a criminal for building a product that could be used for any number of purposes, whether it be a nail, or a knife, or an axe of a gun. after it has been made, it is the user who is responsible. not the maker. and you cannot place blame on innocent people for the actions of criminals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 your pointing out oppressive regimes who more than likely demanded those products, both gas, and nails in ancient times, under threat of death not only for the worker but for the workers family. Can you still blame them for making said product? I'm sorry but personal accountability only comes into play when free will is allowable. the same reason why some people are convicted of war crimes and some people were just following orders. a drunk driver hits a pedestrian, you don't blame the car maker. Someone get's fat, you don't blame the person who made the fork and spoon. Sorry to derail the thread, but you need to take into account all the variables before you place blame. and I'm sorry. I refuse to call a craftsman a criminal for building a product that could be used for any number of purposes, whether it be a nail, or a knife, or an axe of a gun. after it has been made, it is the user who is responsible. not the maker. and you cannot place blame on innocent people for the actions of criminals. If I make a gate with sharp points on it and someone gets hurt on it I will be liable. This is a fact it is the law. People have choices about what they want to put out into the world. I got offered a large military contract once, one of the reasons I did not take it was I did not want make things that could end a life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob S Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 If I make a gate with sharp points on it and someone gets hurt on it I will be liable. This is a fact it is the law. doesn't seem likely. is a knifemaker responsible for future cuts? maybe I am misunderstanding your comment. in any case 'blacksmithing' seems to attract a lot of boogityboogity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 doesn't seem likely. is a knifemaker responsible for future cuts? maybe I am misunderstanding your comment. in any case 'blacksmithing' seems to attract a lot of boogityboogity. Knives by their nature are very necessary yet can be dangerous things, most people understand this and use them safely accidental stabbings are few and far between. I am bound by building code elements may not be sharper than a certain radii spiked railings, gates and grills are not allowed in most cases even in historic situations. Trust me I have tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Timothy, I think you're compairing oranges to Apples. If you build something for a singular purpose, a gate for example, there is only one thing that it can do. Be a gate. It can't be used in more than 1 purpose. therefore, yes, the maker would be liable to injuries as a result of interaction with said gate. But even than certain injuries would be exempt form any fault of the maker. Smashed fingers because someone stuck their hand through the gate while it was closing. That injury is souly the fault of the injured. However, a knife. which has multiple civil purposes (cutting food, cloth, rope, carving, shaving, skinning, etc) as well as having the ability to cause bodily injury to others if used in such a way. The injuries forced upon others are the fault of the user, not the maker. The same goes with nails. they can be used to hold any number of things. It is not the makers fault if the nail is used for horrific things. you said you turned down a military contract based on moral grounds. Thats great, and a luxury that living in a free country affords you. No all craftsman have this option however. I think that spirituality always has two sides. It can be used for good, and it can be used for bad. But even good intentions can be turned into evil things in the hands of evil people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 How about this quote from Thoreau: "Many men go fishing all of their lives, without knowing that it is not fish they are after." It is the journey, not the destination. Expressing your inner self thru working with your hands, or art, or music, or singing and dancing, etc. can be therapeutic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctic Anvil Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Yes spirtual for me!! The Lord has shown me how my smithing is just like life. I started life as a plain odd simple person. I go through life getting beat on, thrown into the fire constantly & then amazingly I am tempered & shaped into something useful. Of course this is ongoing as the scale is knocked off with ea heat. The Lord has blessed me with this ability, I couldn't do it without him. Jim Arctic Anvil Anchorage Alaska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faber Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Nanook I couldn't agree with you more. There so many levels of symbolism that are applicable to not only my life but especially my faith. Everything seems to reflect some aspect of the good Lord and blacksmithing seems to capture a certain glimpse that I enjoy reflecting upon often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 as zen is,....... sometimes you get in the "zone", and it all comes together, time doesn't matter, heat doesn't matter, burns are incidental, and you end up with a piece that you almost don't remember making, and its amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 In many different belief systems there is a very close link between the blacksmith and the shaman. In the religion of Taoism one of the 5 sacred elements is Metal. the others are; Fire, Water (both used by blacksmiths) Wood and Earth. There are many different correspondences for the different types metals in both alchemy and the occult. Iron is the metal of Mars the war God and copper the metal of Venus, Goddess of love, for example. For a spiritual person everything we do has a spiritual aspect. Go to youtube and watch the video trailer for "The Last House of Iron" to see some of the spiritual links and ancient lore of blacksmithing in Africa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel.85 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Anytime I open the door to my shop there is a blinding bright light and an angelic hum for a few seconds, I figured it was normal and happened to everyone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Anytime I open the door to my shop there is a blinding bright light and an angelic hum for a few seconds, I figured it was normal and happened to everyone... Naw, you need new capacitors in your florescent lights. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 In many different belief systems there is a very close link between the blacksmith and the shaman. In the religion of Taoism one of the 5 sacred elements is Metal. the others are; Fire, Water (both used by blacksmiths) Wood and Earth. wood=charcoal & earth = clay forge lining. You nailed it Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Anytime I open the door to my shop there is a blinding bright light and an angelic hum for a few seconds, I figured it was normal and happened to everyone... The instructions on that motion activated camera said "place camera in the wood" not hood :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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