What to temper rr track to ?

[ah1988]

My brother bought a 4ft section of small gauge rr track and we were wanting to cut it up into smaller sections with a torch.

When I cut it with the torch I realize it is going to take some of the temper out of it. So should I quench the track in oil ?

After I quench it what color should I temper it to ? We are wanting to make some anvils and hardy tools out of it.

[eseemann]

I had a 3 foot track cut in two and I have not found the part near the cut to be softer than the other side.

[ah1988]

Intresting ... mabey because the amount of mass it has ????

[Dan C]

Works best when you turn it on end and mount it vertically.  Here is what I did w/ mine until I got an actual anvil.

 

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Quenching is done for hardening after you heat to critical temp, tempering is then done to take away some of the hardness.  There is info out there on making RR anvils, though the more mass under your hammer the better it will work.  Search here or anvilfire for RR anvil info.

[Larry H]

no heat treat,  grind it, use it. Also...be creative when forming the horn. 

[eseemann]

Before you grind, stock up on n95 masks and grinding wheels. The crud that comes off the track when you are cutting will have you sneezing black crud for a week. RR Track eats cut off disks and grinding disks like pop corn.  

[ThomasPowers]

"The complete Modern Blacksmith" has an entire chapter on turning RR rail into anvils including how to heat treat it.

[Frosty]

Do NOT try heat treating RR rail! You do NOT know enough to try this, it's HIGH carbon steel and if you make a mistake it isn't very forgiving like 5160 spring. For instance, torch cuts generally make rail so hard you need to grind it, even carbide cutters fail quickly. the reason as I was told many years ago isn't about heat, it's about carbon entrainment in the cut. I know my oxy propane torch hardly effects rail's hardness so maybe it's true and not an old metal workers myth.

 

When you say the torch ruins the temper it's pretty obvious you don't even have the terminology right. It may sound like I'm playing semantic games but I'm not, heat treating is important and must be done correctly. Tempering is ONE segment of heat treating, controlled softening.

 

Rail is only induction hardened a few thousandths deep on the contact surface nothing's tempered so you can NOT damage the temper. Rail as it is, is more than hard enough to make a dandy anvil, even if you torch the profile and clean it up with grinder it'll more than match any hot steel you lay on it to forge within reasonable weight consideration. I've made several rail anvils and never heat treated one in any way.

 

Please wait till you've built your skills sets before attempting something like this. Popping a chip loose from rail can be a really BAD thing. The snapping sound you hear when steel like this chips isn't the chip breakig loose, it's the chip breaking the sound barrier. think thick, jagged, dirty, bullet.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[forgemaster]

As an aside to this discussion I have also found railway line and tools forged from rail to be very prone to being notch brittle, eg if it has a notch in it (eg chisel cut, grind mark etc) it can snap like a carrot.

 

We made years ago a batch of rail ballast pneumatic tamper tools basically 7/8 hex with collar for a jackhammer like tool, other end has a largish foot on it to push the ballast under the sleepers(ties).  They all came back broken at the same spot, (where we had stamped the hammer type into the shank the stamp was a capital V with 2 little horizontal lines on the 2 tops of the V, all breaks were across the 2 lines on top of the V), I did some trials on the broken tools, we could press/bend the shanks back and fore a number of times no problems, but when I made a chisel cut on the shank, it would snap at that spot like the afore mentioned carrot, when only the slightest bit of force was applied to it.  Hence I do not use rail as a source of material when making impact tools any more.

 

May be some thing to keep in mind.

[eseemann]

ah, 

I can say that the rule "If Frosty says don't do it then don't" is a REAL good stick to measure by. Do what I am doing. Put the rail on a stump or some kind, my stump is a bunch of lumber, and try some work. Do not worry about getting the temper right and all that stuff just yet. Remember that the Icelandic Vikings used an "anvil stone" that is still around (in a had the stuff beaten out of it for the life time of the smith sort of way) but it is still there. www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/bog_iron.htm‎  

 

One other thing, if you want to see a heat treatment of a post anvil take a look at this

He has a different post anvil here that looks like it would work. 

 

[Dan C]

I'm all for the post anvil style.  When I started not that long ago, I was planning on making a horizontal RR anvil but after using it flat and doing research realized that it was too springy.  Going vertical worked much better for me, and I really didn't want to spend days making something I wasn't sure how would turn out.  A better use of time IMO was to get as clean a cut as possible w/ a 14" cutoff saw, mount it vertical and grind the surface flat.  If you went to the link above you saw how I welded a RR tie plate to the top which mounts it to a 4x4 post.  Anchored to the concrete this things solid and I still use it for the many edges it has.

 

I'm thankful for this site and posts like Frosty's that promote safety, which I as a beginner didn't give enough consideration.  I use mostly unknown high carbon steel for tools which I don't HT.  As I get more experience and the desire for my tools to last longer perhaps this will change.  At first the thinking was something like a hot cut or punch was most likely going to loose hardness as you used it w/ hot steel so why do the extra steps to HT.  Forge it, normalize and put it to use.  They seem to hold up well enough and I don't have much time invested in them.  Now I'm realizing that working w/ unknown steel and not having more experience, HT'ing could put myself or others at risk.  I'd much rather gain experience HT'ing a tool such as a screwdriver or paring knife and find out it wasn't tempered enough vs. a hot punch.

[ah1988]

Thanks for all the info, and you guys are right i dont know thats why I asked.

I have a 200lb peter wright so I am not in need of an anvil, I was looking to cut a 4-5in piece and weld a shank to it to make it a hardy tool kinda like a small swage block. My brother was wanting to cut it up into 8in. sections to make small anvils. I am not going to attemp to heat treat them, I am just going to cut them out with the torch. I am overjoyed with the amount of info you guys have provided me with, I like that you guys are conserned for my saftey and explain why I shouldnt do it.

I will post pics when I am done in the project section.