Using a Carbon Arc Torch for Brazing and Heating

[ciladog]

I mentioned in another thread  http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/32317-no-220v-outlet-110v-or-oxyacetylene/ that you can use a carbon arc torch with a stick welder to heat and braze.  I got the impression that not many people know about it since it is something used more than a few years back.
 
While I'm not sure they can be purchased these days they are very easy to make and they are inexpensive to use.  A box of 50 1/4 inch X 12 inch long electrodes only cost about $20.00 and they last a long time.
 
So I posted a short video to show a trial run at brazing a bolt to a piece of square tubing.  The torch is powered by a small 100 amp buzz box set at 70 amps.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVKZZN_W5cU&list=FL-3FGnWL4eKUK7KwSMutEqw&index=1

[HWHII]

That brings back some memories!  :)  Some cool old school stuff there. I was fortunite to be able to learn it high school in the 70's but have never had a chance again. Thanks!

[MLMartin]

A        WARNING          I do not know if this is absolutely correct or not but I dont want to test it out on my welder.

 

While I was at the local welding supply shop I asked about copper coated carbon electrodes for use with brazing or arc gouging and was told by an employee 

 

NOT TO USE THESE WITH INVERTER WELDERS.

 

He told me this would destroy the welder. I was told only to use this type of equipment with heavy industrial welders, Nothing with computer boards in them. So I will NOT try this with my Dynasty.

[ciladog]

I would contact the manufacturer of your welder before trying it. I know some Miller welders like the Dynasty can see the carbon arch as a short but some of their welders can handle it. Better be save than sorry.

I don't think you have much to worry about using a AC buzz box.

[knots]

That is very interesting.  I used to drool over such things back in the 50's when this knd of old school technology was fearured in popular mechanics .   As a kid I was facinated by prospect of being able to fasten something by means other than nails and bolts.   I read every issue of the available magazines cover to cover.   Bought my first OA torch back in the early 60's and just never followed up on this.

 

I once found a discarded canister of used and unused carbon arc electrodes.  Never did find a torch though.   

 

How about showing us the torch in a bit more detail. The electrode holder end looks pretty simple.   Might like to pull put my old buzz box out and give it a try since the cost of gas has escalated so much.  It does look to be an interesting alternative.

 

Thanks for taking the trouble to show us this.  Funny, what goes around sometimes comes back full circle.

[ciladog]

That is very interesting.  I used to drool over such things back in the 50's when this knd of old school technology was fearured in popular mechanics .   As a kid I was facinated by prospect of being able to fasten something by means other than nails and bolts.   I read every issue of the available magazines cover to cover.   Bought my first OA torch back in the early 60's and just never followed up on this.

 

I once found a discarded canister of used and unused carbon arc electrodes.  Never did find a torch though.   

 

How about showing us the torch in a bit more detail. The electrode holder end looks pretty simple.   Might like to pull put my old buzz box out and give it a try since the cost of gas has escalated so much.  It does look to be an interesting alternative.

 

Thanks for taking the trouble to show us this.  Funny, what goes around sometimes comes back full circle.

 

 

Here is a video on Youtube that shows the parts of a arc torch. 

 

[Aljeter]

I welded for a few years making heavy industrial auger and doing repairs on the pier drilling machines. I was wondering what yall were talking about in the other thread when you said carbon arc torch with a stick welder to heat and braze. As soon as I seen the electrodes in the video I knew what was going on. Although I have never done it. I have arc gouged ALOT. Thanks for the video that was interesting. I might try it sometime, just to see it work.

[EtownAndrew]

I bought an old Carbon arc torch on e-bay. I hook it to the stinger and ground on my Lincoln AC welder. I have used it for spot heating of bars that I want to bend. It produces a lot of spot heat. I have to keep it moving or I get little melted spots just under the arc.

[cavala]

That is really cool, I'm blown away, not ideal but good in a pinch. I may try to find one of those electrode holders.
I remember asking one of my welding instructors about carbon arc welding and he said it was sort of like tig welding and I'll probably never see it done anymore.I didn't know about the two rod method. Are the electrodes consumed at the same rate as the gouging operation or less.

[jmccustomknives]

A        WARNING          I do not know if this is absolutely correct or not but I dont want to test it out on my welder.

 

While I was at the local welding supply shop I asked about copper coated carbon electrodes for use with brazing or arc gouging and was told by an employee 

 

NOT TO USE THESE WITH INVERTER WELDERS.

 

He told me this would destroy the welder. I was told only to use this type of equipment with heavy industrial welders, Nothing with computer boards in them. So I will NOT try this with my Dynasty.

That isn't always the case.  Arc gouging is rough on even the largest machines.  It has more to do with duty cycle.  For the process of using it as a torch the amps aren't near what you would use for gouging.   My first experience was Lincoln marketing this with there little buzzbox welders.  If these machines can push the amps to do this then there is no reason for an inverter of the same amp/duty cylcle to do the same.

The biggest drawback with the inverter is life expectancy, you can expect 5-7 years on average.  The old buzboxes could last thirty or more.

 

That is really cool, I'm blown away, not ideal but good in a pinch. I may try to find one of those electrode holders.
I remember asking one of my welding instructors about carbon arc welding and he said it was sort of like tig welding and I'll probably never see it done anymore.I didn't know about the two rod method. Are the electrodes consumed at the same rate as the gouging operation or less.

Since you are doing this at lower amps the rate of consuption should decrease.

[Jack Evers]

I have one that I bought with my Lincoln 225 back in 1966. Doesn't see much use these days, but it hasn't been forgotten and gets used if I'm low on gas and don't want to make a trip to town.It, me and the 225 are getting some age.

[EtownAndrew]

The electrodes are consumed. After each use I normally need to adjust them forward about 1/4" when getting set up for another session. I don't know how this compares to gouging as I haven't done that. 

[Dan C]

Here's my homemade carbon arc torch, pretty easy to fabricate and if you search online you find information on building one.  Mine doesn't see much action, but for occasional use to melt something or free a rusted bolt.  I have been considering it's use for preheating when welding tool steel, but haven't done so yet.  I can only find gouging rods which apparently burn hotter and make it difficult to control.  What supposedly works better are flux impregnated carbon rods which provide a stable flame.  I searched online & called around and couldn't find anywhere that sold those.

 

I did not know about not using it with an inverter and did so with a DC inverter.  The welder didn't seem to be damaged, but the rods will wear unevenly so I went back to using my Lincoln 225.

[Harris Snyder]

Very cool! thanks for posting. I wonder if the same could be done with TIG tips...

 

Physically speaking I can't see a reason to worry with AC. DC I can see there being issues, but AC should be fine...

[ciladog]

dcraven,

 

That is a nice torch you made, simple and functional.  You may want to consider wrapping those wood handles with rubber insulating tape.  You might get a tingle up the arm if they ever get wet or damp. :o 

[knots]

dcraven,

 

That is a nice torch you made, simple and functional.  You may want to consider wrapping those wood handles with rubber insulating tape.  You might get a tingle up the arm if they ever get wet or damp. :o 

 

 

Or  PVC pipe could be used.  I have fabricated a lot of stuff form PVC.   If used all that is needed is a heat gun and PVC adhesive, and a little creative thinking. 

 

Some of the techniques used, in PVC fabrication, could make a good informative thread.  Afterthought - PVC trim boards are also a good source of material as well.  They could be laminated and turned into a nice handle.

 

Actually I will probably try to find one of those nice Lincoln torches.  It is just that I try to avoid FleaBay.   The one question that remains open in my mind is why these devices fell into disuse.  Safety, competition with cheap gas?  I don't think that they are a replacement for OA heating but it sure is nice to have as many alternate ways to accomplish a work task as possible.

[Dan C]

Thanks Ciladog.  Good suggestion on the insulating tape.  I'm pretty paranoid about welding in damp conditions, or even welding w/o having all of my skin covered to avoid any rays or incidental contact.  Only tingle I've ever gotten was from a thunderstorm when lightening hit a nearby lightpole and I was holding an umbrella.  The tingle from that lasted at least an hour.

 

What type of electrodes are you using with the arc torch?

[Dan C]

I don't think they're used much anymore because of other options which give you better control over the heat.  And when using one you need to use at least shade 14.0 due to the extreme brightness.  Normally I use an auto darkening heat, but switched to a flip helmet because I ended up seeing spots from the split second time it takes for the mask to darken. 

 

I think it's a good option to have in your toolbox, and does save on gas.  Just wish there was a source for the other type rods which would give you a more stable flame.

[ciladog]

I use what I can get and that be 1/4 inch X 12 inch gouging electrodes.  They come 50 in a box for about $22.00.  It takes a very long time to use up a 12 inch rod.

[knots]

I use what I can get and that be 1/4 inch X 12 inch gouging electrodes.  They come 50 in a box for about $22.00.  It takes a very long time to use up a 12 inch rod.

 

 Does the source of your rods sell the torch ?

[Dan C]

In case you can't find a torch here are the instructions I used.  http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-carbon-arc-torch-for-your-220-volt-stick-we/?ALLSTEPS

[knots]

In case you can't find a torch here are the instructions I used.  http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-carbon-arc-torch-for-your-220-volt-stick-we/?ALLSTEPS

 

 

Thanks.     This is a good overview of constructiona d operation.  

 

Looking at the Linclon torch it has a heat shield.  In use, does the lack of one seem to be a problem.  With the open arc, which appears larger than normal applications of arc welding, do you think the shields would reduce the potential hazard of use.  It seems also to have an arc gap adjustment wheel that might be convenient if the torch is used for longer periods.

 

As with any open arc process one needs to be aware of the hazards of wearing garments and gloves made from polyester, rather other than those made from natural fibers/materials  .  Not to mention using this device in an area cleared of flamable debris.

[Dan C]

I didn't think the lack of a heat shield was an issue.  I did later adjust the angle of how the rods meet to be steeper and that seemed to help with the flame longer & more forward.  If I could've found one at a decent price I probably would've bought one. 

 

FYI. for the wire or cables, the cheapest & easiest solution I found was going to Walmart and buying the cheapest 10' jumper cables that they had.

[R W]

Where can you purchase the correct carbon rods that the were originally used?
Ive made several inquiries and so far have not been able to locate a supplier.

[Dan C]

I wasn't able to locate the correct type of rods, all I could find was the gouging ones.  If you dig thru this post out on welding web you might find some useful information to you.

 

http://weldingweb.com/archive/index.php/t-4090.html