Anvil Help...may get a big one tomorrow

[nutinauniversalshell]

I have placed a couple ads locally and 2 calls came in. First was for a ~150-200 lb anvil and/or a "HUGE" anvil...when I talked to him again today he said that he thinks the big one is 600-700 lbs and we may have a decent deal lined up (I am waiting for a picture then will have to get ahold of him so I can drive AWHILE to see it (hopefully tomorrow). He said he thinks its at least 25-30 years old and has 2 horns with about a 2.5 foot spread.

 

I am trying to figure out what all to look for in something like this. Brands? Features? etc as I have as o yet only spotted smaller anvils.

 

So any ideas what I should be watching for? Lets not discuss price yet but I think I have a fair deal in line.

 

Also, my 2nd call was today for a 200 lb anvil. It was decent shape though the horn looked odd shaped. Plate top on cast....no markings on either side, just a 20 cast between the 2 feet under the horn. I passed for now as $400 was too much to spend with the other anvils still in play (and it seemed high for what I saw anyway at least for getting a deal).

 

Any info on this would be appreciated. I dont know anything about double horn anvils, especially over 500 lbs but for the right deal I want to possibly own one.

 

Thanks fellers

[VaughnT]

First of all, don't ever trust someone's opinion of weight.  Humans are, by nature, horrible at judging length, width and weight.  If someone says the anvil's 600lbs, consider it less than 300lbs!

 

Still, you should definitely drive awhile and take a gander at it.  Without any more details, I can tell you that my Fisher anvil is approximately 30" OAL (a 2.5' spread) and 14" tall, with a 5.25" face.  It weighs somewhere between 300# and 350#.

 

Two horns indicates a square horn on the heal and a round/conical horn on the other end.  Not a bad deal at all.

 

If you can get the anvil for less than $2/lb, you're doing great.  If the edges are in great condition, almost new, $3/lb is certainly good.  Over $4/lb is stretching it, but it's certainly not out of the ballpark.  All depends on how bad you need a big anvil, and how much you have to spend.

[nutinauniversalshell]

The guy is suppose to have a roughly 200lb one too, and I definately understand the flaws of people and sizing, but he said he has no idea how to move it (I can lift 400lbs if I must but world prefer not too). I said I would have to see it but I'd be somewhere in the $0.50-$1.50/lb range and $1.50 would have to be something special. I'm hoping he sends a picture as he said he would ad that its possibly not double horn but not a square back....who knows. Even a 300lb and another 120 lb would be ok for the drive at that price, but I have to know approx weight to make an offer. I just hoiped someone could drop a quick schooling in the LARGE size anvils so I can make sure its something good. Too many different things out there and while I think I can do decent, finding something special would be even better.

[toolish]

Wow your good wish I could dead lift a 400Lb anvil, I had dramas with 2 people loading a 300Lb one.

Best way I found was to rock the anvil by its' horn up and down as I stacked some bits of wood and bricks under each side and continued the process till it go to trailer height, So bring some wood if you can.

If you manage to get any type of measurement of the anvil you can compare to what is around to get weight.

My guy thought my anvil was a minimum of 400Lb, ended up being 300Lb max lol

When things are heavy people go nuts with the weight.

If the rebound is good and the face is alright it be good what ever the size, as long as the price is right.

Good luck, anvil buying is harder then buying a used car lol

[nutinauniversalshell]

if its on the ground I cant lift it. I have to be able to wrap my arms around it (dad was near 400 and I could lift him and walk but not too far). I have leg pressed over 1000 lbs but that was long ago before my knees bothered me. I think I can estimate the weight depending on my uncle and I lifting it (if the two of us can barely lift it then its probably over 500 lbs). Probably take some pipe to help in case it takes 4 to move it, but who knows. Was suppose to get picture over an hour ago but some people answer easier than they ever send pictures. I hope if no pictures to call and see it tomorrow anyway...even 300lb would be awesome as long as he understands its not 6-700....actual weight or close in the range I told him would be acceptable, Im not going to pay double. Got an email to call a guy closer but still about an hour away as he is suppose to have several too. Plenty around, just hoped to find 200+lb for an AMAZING price. from my anvil bath thread you can see I have plenty for starting out, I just want more and bigger (just like my guns, but anvils are more affordable now).

oh and VaughnT, I have about $300 of my own left for random anvil deals but on the bigger one I can borrow some from my uncle (probably up to about $800)...may not need a bigger anvil but I want one :) Ill probably start selling some excess off eventually sicne I have 2 right at 100 lbs now....I just think it would be nice to keep the 100lb HB, maybe the Brooks 163lb (or another 150lb range one if I get the right deal), 200-250lb one, 300+lb one, and 500+............one of all sizes. Keep watching for deals and keep the best of each range.

[John McPherson]

This is a case where basic math is your friend. You can figure it out with a steel tape, pencil, paper, and the calculator on your phone. One cubic foot of iron or steel is 500 pounds, pretty close. So, 12 x 12 x 12 equals 1728 cubic inches. 500 divided by 1728 equals .289 pounds per cubic inch, so each 3 cubic inches is about one pound.

 

Or, you could use this handy chart.

 

Yes, folks are terrible about guesstimating weights. Some guy at work was telling me about this huge anvil his uncle had that was so big than two men could not lift it, so I lugged my two hundred pound Hay-Budden over and set it down. He choked, and allowed as how that was even bigger than the one his Uncle had! (I was not about to go get the 150Kg Euroanvil, just as long, but much heavier.) The advantages of being a reformed caber-tosser.

[Zahg]

Forget trying to guess the weight, just take a hammer to test rebound, and bring a bathroom scale along. If you don't have one stop at walmart on the way, even if you don't buy the anvil(s), even a cheap scale is nice to have around the shop. :P  Also if it really is too heavy to lift, you can always  borrow an engine hoist(I was gonna say rent, but I just looked it up and they do it free now, leave a deposit, and you get it back when you bring the tool back).

EDIT:  there are plenty of places you can rent one I'm sure, just hit google before you head out.

[VaughnT]

Nut, if you can get a giant of an anvil, go for it.  Just don't take the guy's word for what it weighs!  

 

My Fisher is between 300# and 350#, and measures 29" OAL x 5.25" W x 14" T.  Fishers are notorious for their thick waists and heels, but most any anvil will have reasonably similar dimensions for that weight class.

 

I would strongly encourage you to carry a wire brush and chalk with you so you can highlight any markings on the anvil.  You might be able to read the weight on the side.

 

Whatever the case, though, buy any anvil that you can afford!  Big or small, old anvils aren't being made any more and will only become more desired as time goes on.  You won't make a killing by flipping them, but you'll be able to help someone starting out... and that's a good thing.

[nutinauniversalshell]

Yeah I like working my way up. Just like with guns and everything else, I look for a deal, get what I can afford at the time and work my way up to something to keep. I thought I was there until I got the 100# HB...its so much nicer than the 97# PW...Im always looking, buying, trading, etc on about anything that is of interest and old tools is one of them. Anvils are just one thing I got interested in so Im going all out to find what I can so I can try to get the best possible setup. The weather is killing me on firing anything up, but hopefully soon I can get the forge going and make a few runs for wheel weights and try to get some coil springs etc to make into tools.

 

John thanks for the chart and hopefully I can use it if I cant find markings (took a picture of it with my phone) ;)

 

Unless it ends up just being something way larger than expected, I think 2 of us can move it...3 should be able to do if for sure, but Im sure I can pay a couple guys to help load it if it came to it. I think my uncle and I can lift up to 600 lbs for a short move and he only has one good hand.

 

I plan to grab my measuring tape, wire brush, and tiny ball peen hammer (dont have any chaulk). He said something the other day about made in usa on one of them, so maybe Ill be SUPER lucky and his other info is off (he inherited them) and the big one will be a Nimba :) for the price discussed, Ill be happy with any 2 anvils as long as they arent complete junk though. 

[Glenn]

Why all the fuss?  As blacksmiths you are suppose to be problem solvers, so do not create problems where you have to think out side the box. DO NOT BUILD A BOX TO BEGIN WITH, and all things, ideas, suggestions, etc can be used.

 

To weigh an anvil you only need a 2x4 (maybe 2) and a piece of pipe. Tip the anvil horn down,  or heel down, does not matter, and place the end of the board ender the anvil. Now place the pipe under the board.  Stand on the board and move back and forth or move the pipe until it balances, like a play ground teeter totter. You know how much you weigh so multiple that by the length of board from the pipe to your feet. Divide that number by the length of board from the pipe to the anvil. The result is the weight of the anvil.

 

Feet distance times pounds left equals feet distance times pounds right.

 

FtL x WtL = FtR x WtR

or 

FtL x WtL divided by FtR = WtR

 

You can then use some rope and tie the anvil to the board. Two people can each pick up 1/2 of the anvil weight.

or

 

Place the end of the board on cribbing, the tailgate, etc and tie the anvil close to the end of the board. You can now lift the other end of the board along with the anvil high enough to crib under it. Continue to crib until you reach the height of the tailgate.

 

You may want to use 2 2x6 inch boards and after weighing the anvil, use them as a ramp from the ground to the tailgate. Two or three pieces of pipe can act as roller bearings and a rope tied from the waist of the anvil to the front of the truck and back will act as a block and tackle to make the pulling much easier.

 

When you get the anvil into the vehicle be sure and secure it very well to the front of the truck bed. You do not want it loose. If you have to brake hard it can force the anvil toward the front of the vehicle.  Horn first, it can punch a hole in the truck body and come into the cab. 

[nutinauniversalshell]

You sound like an engineer ;) and I probably would have forgot to grab my heavy strap so thanks....im going to make a note of what to get before I leave the house in the morning

[Glenn]

No, just a blacksmith (grin)

We solve problems :)

[nutinauniversalshell]

The only problem I have with all my engineering degrees is that everything these days seems to want to put you in a cubicle and have you design for failure. I want to design and build stuff...not to fail but to be the best possible product from my head to production. And going back to simple equations is something I should try to think of more because everything is so far "advanced" these days stuff like weighing the anvil with quick calculations from the board is often overlooked.


Got a pic of the small one. its poor quality of a picture and text got messed up.. It looks like it could be anywhere from 100-250lbs from what little I can make out.

text I got says:
"This is the small one it has ACM on the side it weights about 25 [A with a tilde over it and squared] i am as interested in the double horn as much as you are will have better news in the morning on it ok perhaps a blast furnace if they will turn it lose lol. [address sorta]"

[nutinauniversalshell]

not as big as stated (as expected). only got the "big" one 343 actual lbs and some other stuff as he wouldnt let the smaller one go (100lb with ACM on the side and a serial on the front....no sign of an E for acme....seemed to be steel with a steel top plate....I can get it if I bring him another anvil instead and maybe some boot...probably just pass. Did get some random car axle, 2 truck rear axles, torsion bar, stihl ms250 chainsaw, most of an AK kit, benelli shotgun and some other random gun parts....anvil was $250 :)
 

uploading pictures but it needs a good cleaning. will add rough pics here and start a new thread once I wire wheel it clean....it is pretty crusty.

 

Top is flatter than it looks in some pictures. Some parts of the edges are in good shape, some parts have chips. Cleaned 3 1 4 from the side but didnt see name yet (more cleaning another day). 1.5 inch hardy....5.5 inch face by I think around 20 inch length on face and just under 12 inch horn.Back far side foot broken.

[Fatfudd]

Did you weigh it? If it says 314 on the side then it would weigh 368lbs more or less. Should work very well for a long time, Excellent deal!

[DanielC]

You got a heck of a deal there. Nice anvil. Was hoping you'd pull through and show us some anvil spreads!

[nutinauniversalshell]

I did weight it. My scale may be off but shouldnt be off too much...it was sat on a concrete slab and the anvil put on top it....could affect things possibly but it showed 343.4lb on my scale (I saw the markings came to 368, but I assumed it was somewhere in the 350 range from both combined).

 

He started by asking $1/lb but as the smaller one was nicer I offered $1/lb on it and said I was at 75 cents on the other due to overall condition being poorer than the small one....he agreed but buying the other stuff helped me get it rounded down to $250....it was $840 for everything I got (including a large red ceramic bull I will give my mother-in-law, and a cast iron pot for a friend to melt lead in). By the time I clean the gun parts (if I dont keep most of them) and offload the shotgun, I hope to be in the chainsaw and anvil overall for anywhere from $0-200....so pretty much a steal, but the guy was very happy as was I and he may call me about other anvils in the future as he was in a very rural location (guy wouldnt answer he tried to call while I was there). I didnt really want the shotgun but the price was fair for a quick flip at cost or maybe slightly higher and I figured more stuff = better deal (plus he was hoping to get to $800....possibly to do with bills as a mishap with one of his friends finding blasting caps recently resulted in him likely having a blind eye and his friend losing a hand). As he priced things, the shotgun was fair, the chainsaw not a real deal, anvil was darn good, and misc other stuff was virtually thrown in (even though the gun parts is probably around $400 if I can clean them up....they were left outside for some unknown reason so there is rust but not super bad....if left out too much longer they would have been worthless).

 

Nice enough guy, but too long of a drive if I would have just bought the anvil at $1/lb....the rest of the deal was worth burning a day.

[nutinauniversalshell]

Oh and to credit my wife, she helped me sit it from the tailgate to the ground then we moved it in with a dolly....thats why its in the floor as she  made it down but it wasnt coming up for now. Need to figure out a base before we even try.

[PaulKrzysz]

I have found this to be a fairly accurate way of measuring the weights of Peter Wrights +/- 15lbs. Most people give dimensions of anvils so this might be useful.

All units in inches.

L=Total length

H=Total Height

W=Weight

W=(LxH)-100

[philip in china]

That is a wonderful size. Bigger than my Brooks and about the same size as my Bubba Rhino anvil. Either of those is bigger than I shall ever need. So well done.

[ThomasPowers]

In my old shop I used to brace a truss bottom beam with a couple of lolly columns and a section of heavy channel and then use that and a come along to lift anvils onto stumps.

 

My new shop has over engineered steel trusses and so far they haven't deflected noticeably even lifting the 515# anvil.

 

Note also as to lengths:  my 410# Trenton is *MUCH* longer and taller than my 515# Fisher; only comparisons within a maker and style have much chance to be accurate.

[Pulsepushthepopulace]

This is a case where basic math is your friend. You can figure it out with a steel tape, pencil, paper, and the calculator on your phone. One cubic foot of iron or steel is 500 pounds, pretty close. So, 12 x 12 x 12 equals 1728 cubic inches. 500 divided by 1728 equals .289 pounds per cubic inch, so each 3 cubic inches is about one pound.

 

Or, you could use this handy chart.

anvil 5.jpg

 

Yes, folks are terrible about guesstimating weights. Some guy at work was telling me about this huge anvil his uncle had that was so big than two men could not lift it, so I lugged my two hundred pound Hay-Budden over and set it down. He choked, and allowed as how that was even bigger than the one his Uncle had! (I was not about to go get the 150Kg Euroanvil, just as long, but much heavier.) The advantages of being a reformed caber-tosser.

 

^

Information like this is priceless!!!

[nutinauniversalshell]

I had a longer post but darn computer went back and killed it. Short version is that it is on the PW mount right now (way too small a mount in diameter), but it was to get easier access for now.

 

I cut 2 logs today to use but they will probably be for my 163lb and 128 or 100 lb anvils (not enough diameter).

I found a tree section big enough for the big one....at the old city dump spot so I need permission and cutting a 26 inch diameter log is going to be fun with my 18 inch stihl ms250.

 

I also cleaned the anvil some (apparently was face down in dirt for years)...and while makers marks are basically gone, found remnants of a date under the weight marks...1853. I believe it is a William Foster coachmakers anvil :) from the date and oddball size of base, length, etc.

 

Hopefully I can get it fixed up some eventually when  I find a competent person to "work" on the anvil (edges are pretty bad, face is not smooth, and horn is somewhat rough), but I think I can use it for now as there is a section of good edge and I think I can smooth the face enough to work for my skill level.

 

It is currently soaking in Gibbs and I hope to fire up the compressor and wire wheel  the crap out if it soon to make it look much better.

 

Anyway, best part 1853 William Foster (I believe) thats near 350 lbs. WOOHOO!!!

[Pulsepushthepopulace]

350 pound William Foster??? That's fairly large considering the majority that I've seen are 200 or less... 

[ThomasPowers]

Yup; but not too many makers date stamped them.  (Fishers sometimes had dates cast in them.)  My William Foster is from 1828; I'm hoping to be around to celebrate it's bicentennial!