My first anvil build - looking for advice

[stromam]

Just ordered the Lincoln Wearshield 15CrMn.  I left a message with their application engineer and asked him which would be better.  He called back and told me that the 15CrMn is awesome, he would definitely recommend it over the ABR or the 44 for severe impact.  Now I just have to learn how to weld :)  Thanks for the advice in the earlier post!

 

I would say that being about halfway through with this project, i doubt I saved anything over buying a decent used anvil (the hardfacing was over $100, plus all the grinding wheels, gas, etc), but I've learned a bunch of important shop skills, so it will definitely be a worthwhile venture.

[stromam]

Here is what I have done this week, and this is basically how I think I'm gonna weld it up.  I have a couple questions at the end.

 

 

 

Here is my first question.  Looking down through the hardy hole (which I will be fitting with a piece of 1-1/4" square tubing), do I need to be able to see all the way to the floor?  In other words should I cut a notch out of the anvil base, or slide the anvil top down a bit?

 

My second question/thought is on the welding.  I made a couple sketches below of my plans for welding.  I am planning on cutting another inch or so off the middle piece so that it is narrower than the top (see picture below).  Does that look like a good way to weld?  I really don't want to do a full weld like described earlier.  I dont have (any) welding skills yet and don't want to try to attempt something like that.  I would think this would be plenty strong.

 

Lastly, I was thinking about leaving part of the near side unwelded (or maybe just one pass) so I can have a nice sharp corner to use for upsetting.  Does that seem like a good/bad idea?  Does anyone with blacksmithing experience think that would be a nice feature to have on an anvil? See sketch below.

 

Thanks again guys.

[VaughnT]

Hardy Hole:  You don't need a clear shot to the floor with the hardy.  Any tools that you might use shouldn't have a stem that's very long.  Even if you use a spring-loaded hold-down, the spring and chain can bend and flex a good bit without any problems.

 

Welding:  You don't have any welding skills?  Well, the only way to get those skills is to weld.  I think this project is a great "excuse" for some welding practice, but if you don't want to do a full weld...

 

The way you have it drawn, you have a lot of air space between the beads on the sides.  I certainly would NOT remove any more mass from the middle piece.  All that will accomplish is to make the anvil lighter and less efficient.  Instead, bevel the corners of the middle piece so that you can reach in deeper.  The bevels don't have to be very big, but anything is better than nothing.  This will get your beads closer to the middle and make the joint that much stronger.  Think octagon.

 

Do you have a mig welder or stick welder?  If you have a stick welder, you can separate the upper and middle pieces with a piece of 3/8" or 1/2" square stock running down the centerline.  Smaller pieces can "wrap" around the hardy hold.  Then you reach in with a 1/8" 7018 rod and weld.  It's tedious and time consumer, but it gives you a very solid bond between the two pieces.  One of the forum members did just this when he added a section of forklift tine to the top of a severely abused anvil.  Always loved that story and have tried the same technique a few times just practicing my welding.  Getting the slag off the bead is a pain, but other than that it's a very solid way of attaching the two pieces.

[Dodge]

The link I posted shows how I solved the hardy issue in my torch cut anvil... :)

[stromam]

I've got access to both, our maintenance manager is going to teach me and said that you should always learn stick first, then mig is no problem.  I only have 10 lbs of 7018 1/8" stick to work with.  If i did use the 1/2" square stock and weld fully through, would 10 lbs be enough?

 

Dodge, I didn't see your link?

[stromam]

Could anyone post a link to that fork lift anvil face?  Did he show how he did the full penetration weld?  I think I'd be less hesitant to do it if I could see some pictures.

[pjh66]

G'day Stroman anvil is coming along nice.

 

1st - If you can have a clearline through the hardie hole I would. Makes life a bit easier if you happen to get something stuck in it you can just knock it back up from underneath.

 

2nd - I would leave the square area on the nearside for upset in the middle. I would suggest at least a 1/2" bevel weld prep, ( larger if you can) all the way around the middle block (J prep would be better for it but harder to do) Then where the square edge for the upset is it is also still welded just grind it back square.

 

You are going to enjoy using an anvil that you made.

 

Peter

[Sweany]

For the upset plate I'd leave the center section not welded, more mass under the work there. I'd make that side of the top and middle block even, the little lip where the blocks are setting now might be in the way, when upsetting.

 

Cut a 1/2" bevel on top and bottom block on the upset side. This will give you 1" of weld. On side opposite the upset give the top block only a 1/2" bevel, with the middle block being a little larger this should also give a 1" weld, by the time you fill the bevel and cap it off.  The upset block comes in real handy.

 

 

 

my .02

[Dodge]

I've got access to both, our maintenance manager is going to teach me and said that you should always learn stick first, then mig is no problem.  I only have 10 lbs of 7018 1/8" stick to work with.  If i did use the 1/2" square stock and weld fully through, would 10 lbs be enough?

 

Dodge, I didn't see your link?

 

Post # 20

[stromam]

Alright finally some updates:

 

Here is the burnout widened up a bit to make welding easier.

 

And with the 1-1/4" 1/8" wall square tubing mocked up.

 

The welding half done (did stick and there was A LOT of slag removal and flipping the piece).  The slag removal was made much easier with the use of a pneumatic needle scaler.

 

And finally the welding complete.  Just needed to grind down the excess weld/tubing to make it flush (didn't take a picture).  All the above pictures are from the underside of the anvil.  The finished hardy hole will be in a future post.

[stromam]

This post shows where I stand today.  Hope to finish up the welding this week and take a day or so next week to polish everything up.

 

Here is the second layer of hardfacing (forgot to take a picture of the first).  The first layer was done perpendicular to the horn, not sure why i did the second layer at an angle, it just seemed to make sense (but was way more difficult, as you can see the lines are not straight).

 

The hardfacing was nasty to weld.  I'm glad I was wearing a full NIOSH P100 respirator, because the fumes were absolutely awful.  This was the manganese hardfacing, Lincoln Electric 15CrMn for 15% Chromium, 15% Manganese.  On the bright side it was very easy to grind down, not much more difficult than mild steel.

 

But there was a LOT to remove since my welding skills still needed some improvement.  Looking back I think the problem I had was going too fast, the welds build up in little mounds.  Here you can see the final polishing revealing the finished hardy hole.  I had to clean the inside of the hole out a bit with a hand file and round the corners a bit.  A 1" square bar fits inside very nicely.

 

Here I have it tack welded on the middle section with a 1" square bar running down the length (next picture).  You can see there are still some pits in the surface, but by the time I got it ground down this far the face started work hardening quite a bit so I decided to call it good enough.

 

And finally here you can see how I am doing the full penetration weld.  I am glad I decided to do this because it gave me plenty of time to practice my stick welding.  Once I get it build up a little closer to the sides, I'm going to switch to MIG to finish it up.  I originally tried MIG from the start, but the tip couldn't get close enough and i was getting terrible worm holes.

[VaughnT]

That's beautiful work!

 

Separating the two pieces with the 1" stock to get a full penetration weld is exactly what I was trying to describe when I recommended welding a forklift tine to the face.  The only difference would have been to use a thinner separator.

 

Can't wait to see it finished and getting a workout!

[Avadon]

You definitely have a lot of strong fabrication experience stromam. You'll probably find out, like most people do, that creating your own anvil is as expensive, if not more expensive, than buying a real anvil in the same weight category. That said, projects like these can really test and hone your skills. I kind of wonder how the ring is going to be since your first slab isn't very tall and now you have to build up slabs underneath. It's probably ultimately far easier to do a Brazeal style anvil  http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/12883-brazeal-anvil-rising-4-plate-anvil-with-pics/  as you don't have to weld blocks to each other. The steel itself is one large chunk on end. The brazeal anvil linked is 240LB block, but it's through bolted into a cartridge shape that really makes it one massive piece totally 377#. In the end, the brazeal style is probably far less work and if you want you can grind die forms/shapes into your 3" or 4" plate. You can also hardface the top like I did, though it's not terribly necessary. The advantage of the block sitting on end is the enormity of mass you gain directly underneath the face of the hammer. For all intensive purposes, hammering on the brazeal anvil is like hammering on my Nimba Gladiator. They both have the same amount of mass seen underneath each hammer blow.

 

Welding that hardy hole in.. what an impressive feat. I'm way to lazy for that, I would have just welded it to the outside lol but you sure did a beautiful job on it. Can't wait to see how you like. If your this persistent you'll probably have several anvils, like me. Some you built and some you bought. Some you like more and some you like less. When you get to making a stand, give me a nudge. I've got a few links on here that I think you might really want to see. Basically some of the best ideas from some of the best posters on shape, design, build, etc. of Anvil stands.
 

[stromam]

That's beautiful work!

 

Separating the two pieces with the 1" stock to get a full penetration weld is exactly what I was trying to describe when I recommended welding a forklift tine to the face.  The only difference would have been to use a thinner separator.

 

Can't wait to see it finished and getting a workout!

 

Thanks!  I figured it out eventually, the reason I used a 1" square bar was to add some height and weight, I'm going to do the same when I weld it to the base section, which should get me well over the 200 lb mark.

[stromam]

You definitely have a lot of strong fabrication experience stromam. You'll probably find out, like most people do, that creating your own anvil is as expensive, if not more expensive, than buying a real anvil in the same weight category. That said, projects like these can really test and hone your skills. I kind of wonder how the ring is going to be since your first slab isn't very tall and now you have to build up slabs underneath. It's probably ultimately far easier to do a Brazeal style anvil  http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/12883-brazeal-anvil-rising-4-plate-anvil-with-pics/  as you don't have to weld blocks to each other. The steel itself is one large chunk on end. The brazeal anvil linked is 240LB block, but it's through bolted into a cartridge shape that really makes it one massive piece totally 377#. In the end, the brazeal style is probably far less work and if you want you can grind die forms/shapes into your 3" or 4" plate. You can also hardface the top like I did, though it's not terribly necessary. The advantage of the block sitting on end is the enormity of mass you gain directly underneath the face of the hammer. For all intensive purposes, hammering on the brazeal anvil is like hammering on my Nimba Gladiator. They both have the same amount of mass seen underneath each hammer blow.

 

Welding that hardy hole in.. what an impressive feat. I'm way to lazy for that, I would have just welded it to the outside lol but you sure did a beautiful job on it. Can't wait to see how you like. If your this persistent you'll probably have several anvils, like me. Some you built and some you bought. Some you like more and some you like less. When you get to making a stand, give me a nudge. I've got a few links on here that I think you might really want to see. Basically some of the best ideas from some of the best posters on shape, design, build, etc. of Anvil stands.
 

 

I had ZERO fabricating experience before I started this project, but I am surrounded by about 100 years of fabricating experience in our maintenance department.  You guys gave me the ideas, they taught me the skills to get it done.

 

The brazeal would have been much easier, but that wasn't what I was going for.  I wanted something that would provide me with lots of experience and give me a "show piece" I guess if you want to call it that.

 

I am currently planning on mounting it to a stump.  I was actually thinking about just trying to liquid nails it.  I think it will work since the underside of the base is very rough from grinding and there will be such a large surface area.  I think it would make for a very cool look too.  If it works I hope to get a lot of "how the heck is that thing attached?"  I do plan on planing/routing the top of the stump (something I saw in another stump forum), but I'm gonna add my own twist.  I plan on routing 3 "legs" on the stump with one of the holes on the near side of the anvil cut deep enough to get my foot underneath it so I can stand close to my work if I need to.

 

I'll post pictures of the stump build in another forum thread.

[aessinus]

I've been following this thread all along & must say, bravo for getting your hands dirty & being stubborn.  Thankfully you have an onsite maintenance group willing to kick your butt in the right directions & offer brotherly aide.  The skills you have already learned... 

Makes me curious as to your background to launch off into a project of this magnitude, since you continuously denounce prior fabrication knowledge.  You have obviously done due diligence regarding materials, processing, techniques.  Your project is coming along nicely & I expect to see great things from this anvil.  Color me impressed.

[Albert A Rasch]

I'm wondering what his encore is going to be! swage block?

 

Great job and stick-to-it-iveness!

 

Best regards,

Albert

[C.D. Mitchell]

I'll echo those last few remarks.  A project this size requires some guts...not only to begin it but to follow through and bring it to completion.  That halfway mark is always tough, when you're not sure if it's going to turn out how you want but you're too far in to turn back.  So you keep pushing forward and eventually you get to look at the finished product and say "I did it".  No matter what anyone says about it that's something that you'll remember forever, and chances are it probably built on the "never give up" attitude that every man should have.  Way to go, and keep it up.

[stromam]

Some more updates, I'm very close to being done now.

 

Here is the full penetration weld finished on one side.

 

The top pieces ground and lightly polished (I don't know why I keep polishing before I'm finished, I just keep getting weld spatter all over and having to re-grind anyway).

 

I decided to use 1" bar stock around the base to fill it in instead of doing a full penetration weld.  I only did this because I wanted to add a few more pounds and an extra inch of overall height (2" total including the fill penetration weld).

 

Here is is finally all in one piece.

 

Finished filling in the bottom weld

 

When a great idea struck.  I'd do the type of welding I mentioned in an earlier post, then blend it into the upset block at the base to give me some extra curves to use.  Here is the basic weld before grinding.

 

And after grinding.  It is kind of hard to tell what it looks like, but the right portion is a smooth fillet which blends in concavely to the right angle of the left 3/4 of the upset block.  It makes kind of a spoon shape.

 

Next I'll finish grinding and polishing, then heat treatment and drill the pritchel hole (I'll explain on that post why I waited til the end).  On that note, can anyone recommend one or two sizes of holes to drill if you had to pick?

[VaughnT]

A 5/8" pritchel is good for jamming a bent hold-down made from 1/2" round stock.  3/8" is good for supporting the surrounding metal when punching a smaller hole.

 

Were I you, I'd strongly consider a series of holes in increments up to an inch, if you can.  They'll come in handy some time.....

[David Gaddis]

What is the rebound test show at this point?

 

The answer may be relevant to many to exemplify what happens when one uses the hard facing rods on "regular" steel.

 

There were postings of that information but I would like to read your input and results....probably others too.

 

 

 

Carry on

[Sweany]

i LIKE IT! :D

[stromam]

What is the rebound test show at this point?

 

The answer may be relevant to many to exemplify what happens when one uses the hard facing rods on "regular" steel.

 

There were postings of that information but I would like to read your input and results....probably others too.

 

 

 

Carry on

 

I just finished heat treatment (pictures to come) and didn't do a rebound test prior to heat treating, but I can say the surface was VERY hard relative to the mild A-36 steel underneath it.  That being said, I could still grind it if I needed to, it just took a lot of work.  I had to heat treat it for two reasons.  One I wanted to make sure the welds got stress relieved, two I needed to soften the hard face.  I was afraid that if I tried to drill my pritchel holes I would have eaten up some expensive magnetic drill bits.  Talking to the expert on the manganese wear-hardening steel he said that the only way to un-work-harden the steel (which is what happens when you grind on it excessively) is to heat treat it to austenitization temperatures.   Now it should be soft enough to drill.

[stromam]

Final build pics here we come:

 

First here are a couple of the temporary oven I built around the anvil.  I set it on top of a couple pieces of 1" square stock and put another piece along the length of the top so the top didn't get insulated.

 

I used the propane burner from my homebrew setup, its a high pressure burner, I believe 30,000 BTU/hr.  I built the temporary oven with pyroblock we use to line our furnaces.

 

I thought these pictures were cool because you can get a good feel for the colors of steel as it heats from 400-700 F.  My camera takes pictures that are pretty true to color so I thought I'd share.

 

This one is cool because you can see both where I accidentally welded with some stainless rod and you can see the layer of hardfacing on the top.

 

The manganese steel on top also went through the color shift, but I believe it happened at a much higher temperature.  The horn is at red heat, granted it heats up a lot quicker, the steel on the main body directly below the hardfacing had already passed the purple/blue phase at 600 F and was at a very light blue/grey (i'm guessing 800-900 F) and theoretically they are in thermal equilibrium.

 

About 4.5 hours into heat treatment, i finally achieved red heat (my camera doesn't do infrared temperatures very true, it was actually bright cherry not yellow) at about 1500 F.  I kept it there for about 30 minutes to allow it to heat soak a little more.  I am glad I had two propane tanks on hand because the first one got so cold the gas pressure dropped and the flame actually started dying down about 2 hours into it.  The same happened with the second tank about 4 hours in.

 

[stromam]

I let her cool off over the weekend and here it is after removing the pyro block.  it was kind of strange, when I rubbed away the dark red rust (bottom half) it turned into the bright orange rust (top half), which didn't rub off further without an abrasive.  The layer of scale was very thick and part of me wishes I had left it on.  I used a twisted wire cup attachment for the grinder to remove the scale and the other part of me is glad I took it off because...

 

... it looks so good.  I went back and forth using the twisted wire or a flap abrasive attachment, the flap would have polished it up to be shiny, but the twisted wire gave it a more grey/aged dull texture which I decided i preferred (also a lot less work than jumping grits to try and polish the whole thing).  I did polish the face, the step and the top of the horn.  I also put a couple different size radii on the corners of the base, the largest one is on the near left side.  This picture shows well the concave radius I made at the right side of the upset block.  Not sure what I'll use it for, but I'm sure it will come in handy.

 

I added a unique feature to the far side of the anvil, a couple small steps which I think would make a good place to do scarfing for forge welding, or just making different textures/bends/features etc.

 

And finally here she is, cleaned and loaded up in the back of my girlfriend's car.  Props to her for putting up with me staying late so often to do this project.  All together I think I've put in the ballpark of 50 hours to complete this project.

Final weight - 205 lbs.

 

Now I just need to get my stump stand ready.  I've got a couple rough cut stumps in my garage, but to cut them straight I need to get my grandfather's 1950s McCulloch 35A chainsaw rebuilt.  Until then I'll just have to admire my work.

 

Oh, one last thing.  Even after heat treating I had trouble drilling the pritchel hole with standard drill bits in a magnetic drill.  I'm going to take the anvil to my machinist and he is going to help me drill them with some carbide bits.  Lincoln electric said it can be done, it just won't be easy.  They recommended cobalt bits, but I looked them up and they are about $100 each. Ouch, make sure to drill any holes first... I just got excited and forgot.