John McPherson Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 Let me state my bias up front: I am a full time community college welding instructor, but a very limited part time blacksmith. Someone asked in another thread if a welder was a necessary tool to have to be a blacksmith. There were a lot of thoughtful responses to the question, like the order and costs to obtain certain tools and skills. But the main point seems to be missing. Some folks are violently against arc welding anything that you sell if you call yourself a blacksmith, some just want it to look OK with the rest of the product. But everybody past a certain level uses it somewhere in the shop, either a little or a lot. (Stay with me, I'm going somewhere with this. Eventually. This is a vague cloud of ideas that been swarming around in my brain since I attended the ABANA conference this summer.) Every shop and conference I go to has welders in the corner, or in another area for repairs so that the show could go on, but it never is part of the show. The list of recommended skills of a Journeyman includes being able to make a passable weld. There are a lot of folks who blacksmith who also dabble in welding, and a lot of folks who weld who dabble in blacksmithing. Very few are masters of both, and even fewer teach. But there is no book, website, or body of welding knowledge aimed specifically at modern blacksmiths that I have ever seen. Just scraps of information here and there, mostly outdated, even by the standards of those of us born under a flag with 48 stars. Some things have been well covered, like anvil repair. Others, not so much, like what filler metals can be easily blended and hammered in the forge, and which do not. So, I am looking for input, tips, suggestions, anecdotes, whatever. (1) Would you go to see a demo at a conference if it was put on by fellow blacksmiths? (2) What would you like to see covered in a workshop geared to blacksmiths? (3) What would you like to see covered in a workshop geared to bladesmiths? (4) Would you petition the event organizers to include a Welding teaching tent? (5) Who ought to teach this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 The welder in the corner of the shop or demonstration tent is like the 800 lb gorilla that no one wants to talk about. I think there should be some room/tent for electrical welding. It has it's place in blacksmithing so lets talk about it, learn about it, and teach about it. There will always be the purist and they have a place in this world, but so do all the practical welding blacksmiths who use all the tools at their disposal. If you work with metal, you never know where it may lead and what a friend may ask you to do since you are the metal guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 i stay away from welded product mostly because of the fact there are a lot more welders out there than blacksmiths...so if a product i make is mostly welded then someone out there can produce it cheaper / easyer than i can...having said that a welder is a tool that really helps ! there are some items i sell that have a few welds but mostly i use it for tools! dont know about using one at a demo tho ... kinda like doing a demo on sheet metal bending /fabing .. or on cnc plasma cutting...its useful but not really a part of blacksmithing...tho a lot of modern blacksmiths are working with cnc cutout blanks...welding for blacksmiths might be a good course for a community college .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
781 Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 Before Francis Whitaker passed he had an arc welder under the bench. Tom Latane had hours in a steel repousse piece when he tore thru ruining it till a friend tig welded it up and he hardly uses electricity. The anvils ring has had arc welfare featured on the cover. Personaly I am lazy and MIG weld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 When I went to college to get my degree in Welding Technology two of the required classes were Ornamental Ironwork and Toolmaking. Taking these required courses is what started my interest in blacksmithing. Working as a metal framer pays my bills now and I do a ton of welding on the job. Having the skill has got me many jobs over the years. My college professor was one of the founding members of the CBA and also shared a shop with E.A. Chase many years ago. He encouraged me to attend my first CBA Conference (in 2000 I think) and I have been hooked ever since. I do use a welder on some of the items that I make but try to stick to traditional joinery when possible. Being able to fabricate tools and jigs is a part of welding that any blacksmith can benefit from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy-O Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 I've been a metal mangler for the last 25 or so odd years, and now have been adding the art of blacksmithing to my knowledge base for the last year. It seems to me that most all the blacksmiths I talk with or learn from, teach the importantance of learning to forge weld as a part of the blacksmithing art. With that said, true wrought iron should also be used if you were trying to be an ole time blacksmith. However, I feel that if there was available (gas, arc, mig, tig) welding to the blacksmiths of the past, where forge welding was all that was available at time, most all would jump at it with both feet. Metal work and welding go hand in hand no matter how it's done and students need to know how to do it the right way so they don't get hurt. I say yes that all welding aspects of welding should be offered to our up and coming metal wranglers. Folks that watch blacksmithing, want to see the ole blacksmithing ways of which forge welding was the ways available to get two or more pieces of metal together. The students of blacksmithing should be taught all aspects of welding. Or at least made available to them. l Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 If you use it or not, that's your option. If you was to go back in time and show a blacksmith that piece of equipment he would have traded (name your favorite body part) for it. It is not something that one has to use in applying their art, but there are some things that are impractical to forge. Say you are building a workbench, bending jig, or any other larger tool (and we all need to do that from time to time). Having a welder enables the modern smith to do things by himself that would have taken 3 or more to do in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 I'd sign up! Welders are incredibly useful to a blacksmith and don't take away one bit of the "historical" nature of the craft. How many traditionalists use wrenches that they didn't forge themselves? Nuts? Bolts? Rivets? Look at the great work that was made when acetylene welding first came on the scene. Personally, I have a welder and don't know what I'd do without it. Just for making jigs and stands and other sundry in the shop, it's been a tremendous boon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 I my self am a educated welder and consider my self a modern blacksmith. I try not to limit what I do with any equipment. In other words if I need to do traditional work with forge welding I can or production work with modern welding techniques I can do this also. My local associates are mostly hobbist. A lot of them at some point want to get into modern welding of some kind and come by for advise at some point. Even the professionals do also. In the AABA we have discussed the possibilitty of doing a welding demo but there never seems to be enough interest. It seems like the dirty little thing no one wants to talk about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Evers Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 In reading these threads, I often think about my early kayaking days. I was in love with the traditional wooden paddle. Sleek, beautiful, a work of art. After breaking a couple in higher class rapids (at least an adrenaline boosting if not life threatening experience), I realized that I was paddling a fiberglass boat, perhaps a fiberglass paddle was OK. If your clients are willing and able to afford traditional joinery by all means give them what they want, but there is still the shop work, jigs and such, that you might as well do with a welder, and perhaps gifts and such or other useful works that are much appreciated even if welded. Yes, I can forge weld an aluminum bar shoe. I'd rather do it with O/A. One of my common Christmas things is a trivet made by forming three of a client's used horseshoes into spirals and welding them together into a trivet. Much appreciated even if close examination of the bottom side does show some arc welds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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