rbig Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 The old cobwebs have gotten hold of me again....... stuff you knew, at one time, but easily forgot: I have a 220vac welder, AC. Just an old cracker box machine, 230amp. What is max amp draw at 220vac it may pull? Would a 15amp circuit handle it OK? Most I normally ever use is around 130amp, mostly 100 amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Lodge Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I believe they need to be wired for a 50 amp circuit. I think the 15amp breaker would probably trip a lot. I am not electrician, but that's my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backwoods Blacksmith Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 You need 30 amp 220 circuit. The 15 amp breaker will heat up and then trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 My 100A 220V machine requires a 30A circuit. I pulled #6 wire for a 50A circuit since I plan to upgrade my welder at some point. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backwoods Blacksmith Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 You need 30 amp 220 circuit. The 15 amp breaker will heat up and then trip. Starting the arc will draw the most current but the constant arc will heat up the small breaker. Is there a reason not to replace the breaker to 30 amp? Only safe way is if you also upgrade the wiring, the breakers are sized to prevent fires form the wire size used, not just to annoy us by tripping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 In my house the wire to the fifteen amp breakers is smaller than the wire to the higher amp breakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Evers Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 My 100A 220V machine requires a 30A circuit. I pulled #6 wire for a 50A circuit since I plan to upgrade my welder at some point. Phil Low-voltage Lighting and Lamp Cords 10 Amps 18 Gauge Extension Cords 13 Amps 16 Gauge Light Fixtures, Lamps, Lighting Runs 15 Amps 14 Gauge Receptacles, 110-volt Air Conditioners, Sump Pumps, Kitchen Appliances 20 Amps 12 Gauge Electric Clothes Dryers, 220-volt Window Air Conditioners, Built-in Ovens, Electric Water Heaters 30 Amps 10 Gauge Cook Tops 45 Amps 8 Gauge Electric Furnaces, Large Electric Heaters 60 Amps 6 Gauge Electric Furnaces, Large Electric Water Heaters, Sub Panels 80 Amps 4 Gauge Service Panels, Sub Panels 100 Amps 2 Gauge Service Entrance 150 Amps 1/0 Gauge Service Entrance 200 Amps 2/0 Gauge Power = amp*voltage Normal open circuit voltage on a buzz box is about 40 volts and will drop some as you weld. Assuming 40 volts though means 40 times welding amps equals 220 times line amps so line amps is about one sixth to one fifth of welding amps. To meet code with a 225 amp welder you would need about a 40 amp breaker and 6 gage wire although I ran a 225 lincoln for 20 years on a 30 amp circuit (8 gage wire). I rarely welded at more than 115 amps. Once I ran a 100 foot extension cord of 10 gage wire to repair a drain under my barn (now I use a generator) I got the weld, but every time I struck an arc, I could hear the fan in the welder slow down so I was not doing my equipment any favors. A 15 amp circuit isn't close, particularly with 12 or 14 gage wire. That first part was a table that didn't make it through the IFI forum editor. Here's the linkhttp://electrical.about.com/od/wiringcircuitry/a/electwiresizes.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbig Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 On going to a 30amp 220vac breaker, no problem at all. Just diddling around trying to get a scope on sizes of things. Sounds like a good 30amp circuit will run me fine. I normally weld at approx 100 amps, some rare times up to 130 amps. Pretty thick plates at 130 amps. Thanks for the replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 From an Electrical Engineering perspective, the 230A buzz box requires a minimum of 40 Amps, which in turn requires #8 wire. To furnish the machine with less than it's required electrical service, is, in my opinion, short sighted. The 30A alternative that's discussed above, would still require the installation of #10 wire. Why not just run the correct service, and have access to the full capability of your welder ? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Good question Smoothbore. The outlets should be the same price, and likely the breakers too. The wire cost is driven mostly by the length of run. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Low-voltage Lighting and Lamp Cords 10 Amps 18 Gauge Extension Cords 13 Amps 16 Gauge Light Fixtures, Lamps, Lighting Runs 15 Amps 14 Gauge Receptacles, 110-volt Air Conditioners, Sump Pumps, Kitchen Appliances 20 Amps 12 Gauge Electric Clothes Dryers, 220-volt Window Air Conditioners, Built-in Ovens, Electric Water Heaters 30 Amps 10 Gauge Cook Tops 45 Amps 8 Gauge Electric Furnaces, Large Electric Heaters 60 Amps 6 Gauge Electric Furnaces, Large Electric Water Heaters, Sub Panels 80 Amps 4 Gauge Service Panels, Sub Panels 100 Amps 2 Gauge Service Entrance 150 Amps 1/0 Gauge Service Entrance 200 Amps 2/0 Gauge Power = amp*voltage Normal open circuit voltage on a buzz box is about 40 volts and will drop some as you weld. Assuming 40 volts though means 40 times welding amps equals 220 times line amps so line amps is about one sixth to one fifth of welding amps. To meet code with a 225 amp welder you would need about a 40 amp breaker and 6 gage wire although I ran a 225 lincoln for 20 years on a 30 amp circuit (8 gage wire). I rarely welded at more than 115 amps. Once I ran a 100 foot extension cord of 10 gage wire to repair a drain under my barn (now I use a generator) I got the weld, but every time I struck an arc, I could hear the fan in the welder slow down so I was not doing my equipment any favors. A 15 amp circuit isn't close, particularly with 12 or 14 gage wire. That first part was a table that didn't make it through the IFI forum editor. Here's the linkhttp://electrical.about.com/od/wiringcircuitry/a/electwiresizes.htm Thank you, I did not know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Rbig, you did not give your location. If you are in North America, you'll need two hot leads and a ground lead and a two-pole breaker. If you're not in North America, consult some electrician other than me. North America uses a single split phase. Other places do not. And, yes, fifty amps. (Wiring should accommodate 120% of anticipated load.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I confess that I didn't read every word of every reference above, but there are more considerations than just amperage draw of the tool. One is the distance your welder is from the service panel. Measure the length of the cable you need (including all the twists and turns) to put the receptacle where you need it, then find a calculator online to determine minimum wire gauge. Also consider that the routing of cables may affect gauge sizes (local/national requirements). Cables that are enclosed (like in conduit), may need to be heavier because of temperature considerations (check electrical codes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Rbig, you did not give your location. If you are in North America, you'll need two hot leads and a ground lead and a two-pole breaker. If you're not in North America, consult some electrician other than me. North America uses a single split phase. Other places do not. And, yes, fifty amps. (Wiring should accommodate 120% of anticipated load.) Actually need you 4 wires. One needs 2 hot 1 neutral and 1 ground to meet current codes, also a circuit should not use more than 80% of the wires rating in normal use, so 30 amps is still shy of what you need. One more problem with arm chair electricians guesing is they are not there to take the blame when their is trouble down the road, and Insurance Companies do not have to pay a claim on improper electrical installations, they go after the contractor. Ask them. Using on line sites if fine IF you know the poster is qualified. a quialified and licensed electrician. IBEW 305 jiw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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