cwinter Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 New to blacksmithing. Was curious to see others thoughts on how they would make these: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I would get a copy of this book titled: "Tool Making for Woodworkers" by Ray Larsen or the book, "The Making of Tools" by Alexander G. Weygers and take a class or two in blacksmithing at your local blacksmith guild. Very sorry, but I don't believe there is a short answer to your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
781 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 First of all what are they used for the joint between brick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondacker Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Bad Roger is right they are for sticking joints for brick or block, some are made for joints in stone work, and are called strickers and seal the mortar tightly around the brick, block or stone. Adirondacker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maillemaker Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Well, what are they? Form often follows function in our trade. They don't look terribly hard to make; there isn't much that I see other than drawing out the tang and shaping the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 They are called jointers. They are used to point the mortar joints after bricks or blocks are laid. They are not much use on stone work... the best stone man I know is magically quick jointing the mortar with gloved fingers at just the right stage of set. I would say that most any smith with at least a couple of beginner's classes should have little trouble making them. It would be nice to have a bottom tool to shape the convex working surfaces... but for just a few you could easily hot-file or grind the contour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Swages, 5160 or higher carbon steel tempered for tough-hardness as they get a lot of wear in their intended use. Me I'd start with automotive coil spring a bit smaller than the wanted face side and forge it down into a trough on my swage block using a hand held fuller for the top side---really help to have a striker or use a treadle hammer. Fullering the top side should expand it to fit the bottom swage and so be the correct size at the end without forging more steel than you need to. Forging and shaping the neck and the tang is simple. Oil quench and draw temper---may need to experiment to see what works best for the tempering temp, too soft and it will wear down too fast, too hard and it's too brittle and this sort of tool gets dropped, thrown, etc in a typical job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwinter Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Hey everyone thanks for the replies. These are tuckpointing jointers and they are used to repoint mortar into brick walls. My initial idea was to get cold rolled steel rod to size and grind the convex face of the tool and then for the part that fits in the handle, heat and strike down to the correct size. I don't know how dificult it would be to grind 1/8-14" off the face of the rod. What kind of grinder would you guys use? A bench grinder with stone wheel or banch sander? Any other ideas? Thanks edit: The reason I wanted to get the cold rolled steel to size is some of the jointers have a flat face instead of a convex so it would make most sense to order lengths of steel rod to size and on some, grind the convex face and the others leave flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOblacksmith0530 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Thomas has it right. the only difference in the way I do it is to use the round and just forge it into the bottom swage so it ends up with a flat back and spreads to fill the bottom swage. the rest is file work (or belt sander) an heat treat. I did a few with teh hollow back and it is more work and in a one man shop no striker is a pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGreen Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 striker is also the term I grew up hearing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Cold rolled stops being cold rolled as soon as you heat it to working temp---why pay extra to throw it away? Auto Coil spring is cheap if not free (stop by my place and I'll give you 20 or 30 pounds worth) and will last longer in abrasive use---even just normalized and much longer if properly heat treated. (the trick is to not buy them as repair parts but buy them as scrap metal...we don't care what they came off of or when!) As for grinding I'd use a proper belt grinder designed to work steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwinter Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 Cold rolled stops being cold rolled as soon as you heat it to working temp---why pay extra to throw it away? Auto Coil spring is cheap if not free (stop by my place and I'll give you 20 or 30 pounds worth) and will last longer in abrasive use---even just normalized and much longer if properly heat treated. (the trick is to not buy them as repair parts but buy them as scrap metal...we don't care what they came off of or when!) As for grinding I'd use a proper belt grinder designed to work steel. Sorry... I described the metal incorrectly. It is ground flat stock o1 tool grade steel. Exterior Finish Oil-Hardened and Precision Ground Hardness Rockwell C: 63-65 Temper Annealed wide hardening range of 1700 degree F to 1775 degree F, with 1750 degree F recommended It is from the Starret tool company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Welcome aboard C, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in your header you might be pleasantly surprised at how many of the gang here are within visiting distance. I sure wouldn't recommend O-1 for this especially to someone who wasn't experienced working with tool steels. Coil spring steel is much more forgiving of mistakes heat treating and is more than skookum enough for tack points, jointing points or . . . <grin> Forging into a swage will work well with a little practice and practice just calls out to the Scott in me for salvaged coil spring for stock. I'd be tempted to Forge coil down with kiss blocks of the desired thickness. For instance if you want a 3/16" thick point with a 3/32" radius edge place two pieces of 3/16" steel maybe 4-6" long across the anvil face. Okay,(live edit) cut the kiss blocks a couple few inches longer than the width of your anvil's face and bend the ends over it so they'll stay on the anvil. With my shop and tools I'd weld keeper plates to they wouldn't drift apart in use. Anyway, the kiss blocks set the thickness of your points, you simply lay your work next to the blocks and forge it down till your hammer KISSES the kiss blocks. When I say kiss I MEAN just kiss the blocks with the hammer you are NOT trying to beat them, they're just letting you know you're to thickness. You'll have a pretty uniform radius on the edges of the piece needing only a little dressing to make clean joints. Heck, grind the back side square if you like, they're your tools. Remember don't PUSH into the grinder or belt, smooth light pressure and uniform movement will give you a much nicer finish and prolong wheel/belt life. Then I'd draw the tang and bend it for the handle. Start with the thickest tack point, it will take the most force to move so mistakes will take longer to become permanent, same for heat treatment. Harden on a rising heat at non-magnetic in warm (100-130f) oil, swirl till it's stopped boiling the oil, you'll hear it stop sizzling in a quiet shop. Shine it up a bit and draw a temper to purple on the jointer and purpley blue at the tang. Thicker steel will heat more gradually on both treatments, remember you want it uniform heat when hardening, tempering you want the tang to come to heat a little sooner then the blade. Hope that's helpful. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 yup using O1 store bought *new* is rather like feeding your wood stove with hardwood lumber bought from the fine woodworking stores---you can do it but the return on cost is horrible compared to loading it up with firewood... Don't know about where you got that but you can't have Temper Annealed and Hardness Rockwell-C 63-65. You can have it can be hardened to Rockwell C: 63-65 and is sold in annealed state. Annealed is as soft as you can get it and 63-65 is quite hard indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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