Broken

[confederatemule]

I am very new here, and I am not any part of a Black Smith. I used to shoe horses as a part time job, so that is as close as I ever got to being a Black Smith.
Years ago I accumilated a Wilkenson & Son Queens Dudley anvil that is missing the rear body. I never needed it cause I had an excellent farrier's anvil. Now I have a naging desire to repair this old anvil.
The picture is not of my anvil, but, it is broken at the same place as mine. I do not have the part that is broken off.
Does anyone have any suggestions or can anyone point me to information about repairing it?

Thanks for any help.
Mule

[Vwzach182]

I am by NO means an expert at anvil repair but I am great at fixing really broken things in general. I would have to say that your only hope would be to use what is left of the face as is. It may be possible to weld a section of heavy square tube stock vertically to the rear portion to use as a makeshift hardy hole if you really wanted to. I think that any attempt to rebuild the missing section and make it look close to original would be really tough without re-forging the entire anvil with a new chunk of iron to add. Depending on the condition of the remaining face it could work really well for you without any repair.

[batesblacksmithshop]

use as is look for a better 1

[David Gaddis]

It is worth only the parts that what you have or setemental values. Ortherwise it is a doorstop.

[macbruce]

Trying to repair this anvil would be a mistake imo. It still looks quite useable......It looks like a bird's head to me..... B)

[ThomasPowers]

traditionally made *old* anvils were forge welded up from chunks of wrought iron. The faces were composed of pieces of higher carbon plate forge welded to the wrought iron. If the face line lines up with the weld line of a piece of the body and that weld was not quite as good as it could have been then they sometimes failed at that point.


Now to repair it old school you need to clean and dress the break, forge a chunk of real wrought iron into the proper shape and forge weld it on and then forge weld a new face section and punch the hardy hole, (or pre-drill it cold and then drift it *hot*) and then re-heat treat the entire anvil.

This is a major undertaking! As most smiths have not worked with real wrought iron or in teams---necessary to do large heavy time critical smithing tasks. As a demo at Quad-State on year they refaced an anvil by forge welding a new high carbon plate to it. Using a team of experienced smiths they took 4 attempts IIRC to get the face welded on properly.

If it's in as nice a condition as the one shown it's still a great anvil just not one with a hardy or heel---I have a Powell like that and it works great---especially with new students whose hammer weight seems to exceed their IQ at times....

However if you are really wanting to do it old school and don't have to have it usable any time soon GO FOR IT!
Perhaps see if the SouthFork smithing group wants to try it sometime---*heavy* *bragging* *rights* if you succeed!
(And this was done historically, there are even adds in 19th century blacksmithing journals offering such repairs!)

Now if you want to go modern a full penetration arc weld of a suitable piece of steel is called for (and you know that welding wrought iron with arc can be done but is a bit trickier than modern steels due to the slag content).
As the heel doesn't get much pounding on I'd go with a low to medium carbon steel and not worry about hardening it.

I have an old anvil missing the face and the heel, so if you get a team together I'd like to be part of it and we can practice on both of them! (and am probably moving back to NW AR next year...)

[confederatemule]

How many pictures can I send here?

[confederatemule]

traditionally made *old* anvils were forge welded up from chunks of wrought iron. The faces were composed of pieces of higher carbon plate forge welded to the wrought iron. If the face line lines up with the weld line of a piece of the body and that weld was not quite as good as it could have been then they sometimes failed at that point.
Now to repair it old school you need to clean and dress the break, forge a chunk of real wrought iron into the proper shape and forge weld it on and then forge weld a new face section and punch the hardy hole, (or pre-drill it cold and then drift it *hot*) and then re-heat treat the entire anvil.
This is a major undertaking! As most smiths have not worked with real wrought iron or in teams---necessary to do large heavy time critical smithing tasks. As a demo at Quad-State on year they refaced an anvil by forge welding a new high carbon plate to it. Using a team of experienced smiths they took 4 attempts IIRC to get the face welded on properly.
If it's in as nice a condition as the one shown it's still a great anvil just not one with a hardy or heel---I have a Powell like that and it works great---especially with new students whose hammer weight seems to exceed their IQ at times....
However if you are really wanting to do it old school and don't have to have it usable any time soon GO FOR IT!
Perhaps see if the SouthFork smithing group wants to try it sometime---*heavy* *bragging* *rights* if you succeed!
(And this was done historically, there are even adds in 19th century blacksmithing journals offering such repairs!)
Now if you want to go modern a full penetration arc weld of a suitable piece of steel is called for (and you know that welding wrought iron with arc can be done but is a bit trickier than modern steels due to the slag content).
As the heel doesn't get much pounding on I'd go with a low to medium carbon steel and not worry about hardening it.
I have an old anvil missing the face and the heel, so if you get a team together I'd like to be part of it and we can practice on both of them! (and am probably moving back to NW AR next year...)

Wonder how much the "old school" repair will cost?

[confederatemule]

[ThomasPowers]

Well if you scrounge the wrought iron for free then the only cost is coal + time---you can build a ground forge for the heating... or in reality *TIME* especially as you need to work with your team to become a *team* in striking and maneuvering heavy lumps of wrought iron at forge welding temps. If you have "free" time then old school may be cheaper than buying and burning so many rods in an arc welder.

I seem to accrue wrought iron faster than I can use it myself...

[confederatemule]

Another question. What do the numbers, "1 1 8", on the side oposite from the maker's name mean?
What does the number, "3" on the horn end of the base mean?

Thanks to all for your rsponses.

Mule

[Bentiron1946]

Thomas, In picture 25/25 is that a crack where the horn joins the main body of the anvil?

[Bentiron1946]

Thomas, In picture 25/25 is that a crack where the horn joins the main body of the anvil?

[confederatemule]

the first 1 is hundredweights=112 lbs
the second 1 is quarter hundredweights=28 lbs
the eight is pounds=8
total=148 lbs

Thanks

[confederatemule]

Thomas, In picture 25/25 is that a crack where the horn joins the main body of the anvil?

I know you asked Thomas, and I hope he responds, but, in the meantime....
Looking at it in real life it looks like the horn has been broken off and poorly forged back on. Kind of like trying to work modeling clay after it has gotten a little too dry.
[That is how it looks to my nonexperienced eye.]
Mule

[ThomasPowers]

Wonder if that one was welded up on a Monday---or on a Friday right before quitting time...

[macbruce]

Wonder if that one was welded up on a Monday---or on a Friday right before quitting time...

I say the blacksmith ''lost his temper'' and smacked it with a sledge on a very cold day..... :angry: ....What he did after that is scary to ponder......

[Tom W]

I recently repaired a similarly broken anvil by having (3) pieces of 1 1/2" plate waterjet cut to the correct size, beveling them and welding them on. I milled a 1" x 1" hardy hole in the side of one and drilled a pritchel hole in the other. My mistake was not sanding and inspecting the anvil before starting. I found some cracked that spider webbed through the body of the anvil. Apparently it was a low grade of wrought iron and used with a heavy sledge. I ended up welding a piece of 1" plate on top for strength. This will not be hard, but better than it was. It took alot of time and 7018 electrodes.

Tom

[Tom W]

Pictures of anvil repair and cracks.

Tom

[evfreek]

Wow. There sure are a lot of anvils with broken off heels. I saw one for free on Craigslist. Makes me afraid of upsetting a hardy tool in the hole. Those heels must have broken off somehow.

[confederatemule]

I have access to a solid piece of metal that I can have cut to correct size and shape. I can then have it welded to the anvil, as Tom did. The only cost will be the welding rods. The cracks are something to consider and, as mentioned earlier, the horn attachment does not look good. If the horn breaks, at a later date, I guess I can have it welded back on. Although, repair can equal the price of another [good] anvil, very fast.
???????????

[confederatemule]

The man who gave mine to me [in 1977] said that the heel or horn will break off fairly easy if they recieve a blow from the under side. For instance, if it falls from a stand to a hard surface. I am only repeating what I was told.

Does amnyone know anything about the "3" stamped on the base under the horn?

Thanks, folks, for all of the answers and suggestions.

[matei campan]

the interesting thing is that I'll buy an anvil like that. I've already mentioned that on this forum, an anvil like that would be a very good knifemaker's anvil, you have edges to work the blades's bevels. but's not only good for that, but for many other things. on a good anvil, especially on the very elongated and thin ones, it's more difficult to use the heel's edges. on the broken ones, you have an edge near to the sweet-point area, which makes it ideal. and if you just dress the breakage surface, you'll have something looking like a "colonial" anvil.

to repair such an anvil, it worths just for the fun of it.

If you already have a perfect anvil, consider this another tool, with different features. if you will repair it, you'll have just another anvil, but of less quality (?), with the time and $ invested in it enough to buy at least one other in good condition.

[VaughnT]

The way I see it, you have a great anvil as-is. The hardy and pritchel can be nice features, but they surely aren't all that important when you consider that most shops are going to have a vise nearby that can be used for holding tooling. If anything, I'd weld up the edges to repair those chips and then call it good. For 99% of what you could want to do, that anvil's fine.

[Tom W]

For starters I would think about doing some edge repair and also grinding the joint between the horn and anvil body with a angle grinder. Generally, most of the hammering is down on the horn so the top of the horn will be in tension and the bottom in compression. The top 3/4 inch to 1inch is the most important and I would think about rewelding that on the horn to body joint. After using it awhine you can see if you want to go further.

Tom