santisfurnace Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 hello there. just started in blacksmithing and i am trying to order coal for the forge, because i am from Cyprus the price of coal is very expensive here because there is only one supplier in my area with no competition so he sets the price to one euro per kg so i thought it will be a better choice to order online a tone or two tones of coal from Alibaba.com. the supplier asked me some questions which i do not have the knowledge to answer. the questions are: 1. coal fixed carbon content? 2. Sulphur Content? 3. Volatile Matter? 4. Ash Content? 5. Size? and which one is best to get, Calcined Coal ,Coal,Anthracite Coal? can someone help me answer these questions? any help would be appreciated. thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 In the Mediterranian? Can you get lump charcoal such as used by restaurants for cooking? If lump charcoal is easier to get, it was the preferred fuel until a couple hundred years ago. Pound for pound it has the same energy content as coal. Generally bituminous coal of low sulfur content is used, although other low sulfur fuels are suitable such as anthracite, coke, metalurigical coke...but these more dense fuels bring minor problems over lump charcoal or bituminous coal (electric blower requirements, heavier firepot concerns.) Charcoal, bituminous coal, and breeze coke (lightweight, soft coke) can operate without constant air blast. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Here are the details on what is considered to be a top smithing coal in the USA: Source: Penn State Coal Sample Database Seam : Pocahontas No. 3, Type : Low Volitile Bituminous (lvb) Ash : 7.44% Sulfur: 0.64% BTU :14542 Volitile : 15.70% Carbon: 92.42% Reflectance: 1.85 However I'm with Phil it may be easier to get good charcoal than good coal in your location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santisfurnace Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 thanks a lot this has been very helpful. i will try both charcoal and coal and see which one will be the cheaper choice and get that one i guess. thanks again.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
781 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Make sure it is lump charcoal and not briquettes which are mixed with dirt and pressed to make the briquette. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george m. Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Dear 781, Actually, I believe the binder in charcoal briquettes is actually corn starch. Still crappy forge fuel, though. Not the best for grilling either. Real men (and women) barbeque on real charcoal. I agree that on Cyprus charcoal is probably the more practical fuel. If coal is used what is wanted is a good coking coal since you are actually burning coal rather than raw/green coal. I'll check my old geology references for the characteristics of coking coal and post later. Santisfurnace, which part of Cyprus are you on, Greek or Turk? Availability of coal/coke may be different depending on which side of the line you are on. Dissatisfiedly, George M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Clay is also used in some briquettes as well as anthracite... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Roy Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Thomas, in your specification for coal what is the unit of measure for the 14,542 BTUs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twcoffey Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Normal bituminous coal is around 15000 btu per pound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Welcome aboard Santisforge, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in your header you may be surprised to find out how many folk on IFI live within visiting distance. Sure, Cyprus is farther afield than most folk here are still you might be surprised, IFI has members all over the world. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santisfurnace Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 hello there. i am glad to be here thanks.. i am on the Greek side of the island, Larnaca town. thanks a lot by the way. this has been really heedful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santisfurnace Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 i cannot seem to find where to search for other blacksmiths. what is the header Frosty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 There is a location field in your profile settings. If you look under my image is says "location Ohio" you can put something similar in for your own. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gaddis Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 How about this...make your own coal! Google charcoal making at home. Use old pallets that come in from shipping. Generally there are pallets near ports or businesses everywhere. Glad you are here too. Carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert hanford Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Καλυ τύχη ! Αν είσαι στο Συκαγγο έλα σπίτι μου. Pardon my spelling. My Greek is pretty rusty. If you have relatives in the states or Chicago please come visit my Smithy shack! Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george m. Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Dear Satisfurnace and others, As I sort of remembered from my geologist days it is tough to tell whether a particular coal will be a good coking coal just from the normal physical characteristics. It has a lot to do with how it reacts physically when it is coking. Some coals disintegrate (bad) and some become more plastic (good). In general, though, a good coking coal has about 25% volatile matter, low sulfur (prob. less than 1%), is usually a low to medium volatile bituminous coal, and has a free swelling index of less than 4. I found one old reference which stated that a good smithing coal was less than 1% sulfur, less than 7% ash, greater than 70% carbon, and less than 12% water. Experimentation is the key. If you are having to buy it at a fairly high price and if you live near neighbors you might think of just buying coke itself. I have used it as my primary fuel for years. The main down side is that you have to keep some air blast to it all the time or it goes out within 5-10 minutes. Coal will continue to burn on its own. If you are using an electric blower you can leave it on a low level but if you are using a crank blower or bellows you have to keep at it and eat your lunch off the anvil. Carboniferously, George M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 "Calorific Value Btu/lb dry basis" is what it says on their website. Good catch as there is probably an imperial vs metric infarction---though BTU is a rather old school measurement too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 i cannot seem to find where to search for other blacksmiths. what is the header Frosty? Your header is the little section to the left of the text window, mine says Frosty, senior member, Meadow Lakes Alaska. If you click on the area to the left of the text message in your post it'll take you to your profile and you can edit it, just follow the directions or click on stuff and experiment. It's reasonably simple, we're blacksmiths not ITs. Now I'll get it from the blacksmiths who are ITs. If you go to the site's homepage you'll see a section on the left titled "Members," you can look through it, check out a little about the guys and check out every post someone has made. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 You must forgive Frosty, you know how in blacksmithing we often think that bigger is better? Well once he took a sauna and instead of beating himself with birch branches he decided to do it with the tree instead... Thomas who's day job is as a software engineer...and only has banging his head on his desk as an excuse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupiphile Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Hey there, I'm not sure if you are expressing a preference, but I imagine coke should be pretty readily available in your region. As for characteristics that analyisis above is a pretty good starting point. Charcoal is another option. It would be a tragic irony if you were unable to find charcoal in cyprus as that the entire island was denuded for the production of charcoal, during the bronze age. Take care, Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 If you are near a port, are there any steam powered vessals there? The coal used on the steamers used to be great stuff for forging, try the docks bunkering area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george m. Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Dear John, I think that your suggestion is about 50+ years too late. Just about everything marine is diesel now, even in the more remote areas of the world, There isn't a coal infrastructure left rxcept for electrical generation. Anachronistically, George M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Dear John, I think that your suggestion is about 50+ years too late. Just about everything marine is diesel now, even in the more remote areas of the world, There isn't a coal infrastructure left rxcept for electrical generation. Anachronistically, George M. That may be so, but there are groups that keep the steam historical vehicles working, and they have sources for suitable fuels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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