Whirly Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 G'day All, would like some advice on some steel bar I've been given. Was visiting a saddler I know and commented on some great looking punches he'd made at his forge. He told me they were made from rail clips (18mm round bar) and he'd looked into the company who made them and the steel was 9264. Question is, apart from leather or wood working tools, what would this stuff be good for? Blades? Hawk/axe edge? hot/cold tools? include in a billet? Have mostly only worked with mild and spring steels to date and am not very knowledgable on steel types as yet. Thanks for any and all advice. (tried searching the site for info on this, but perhaps didn't look in the right place, so posting here) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 make a chisel out of it ......harden in oil...... temper to straw.......cool in water. If it's a good chisel, the sky's the limit ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I don't know about 9264 but rail clips have to be tough and not prone to work hardening. Do a basic test run, making a cold chisel isn't a bad test and see how it performs. I'm thinking it'd be a good strength component for blades and such. I have the rectangular rail clips and they're excellent for tongs, drifts and prybar like tools. I'm keeping my eyes open for the new type clips to experiment with. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 My literature is too old to have 9264. However in the Society of Automotive Engineer numbering system [sAE], 9260 is an alloyed spring steel. 9262 is alloyed similarly, but has a little extra chromium added. The predominant alloys are Silicon and Manganese. The last two digits, 64, would indicate a close approximation of carbon content, ie., 0.64, expressed arithmetically as 64/100 of 1%. 9260 is oil hardening. A common auto spring steel in the states is 5160, and it is likewise a silicon/manganese steel. 5160 is oil hardening. The way the numbering system works.The first digits, 92 is the type of steel.In this instance, manganese 0.85%; silicon 2.00%; chromium 0 or 0.35%. The last two digits are the carbon content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOblacksmith0530 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I would think the 92 designation should mean the chemistry is the same for all 92 series steels and the 64 should be the carbon content. Am I wrong in this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Not necessarily. As mentioned, 9260 and 9262 have slightly different chemistries. We're still guessing at tomcats, but I would guess that 9264 is a silicon/manganese spring steel. Also as shown, the chromium content may or may not be present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whirly Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 Ok, thanks fellas. Sounds like suck-it-and-see, which is pretty much what I was going to do, just thought I'd check if someone had experience using this stuff. Frank, it certainly is a spring steel, thanks much for the break-down. Larry, Frosty, yes, -tongs and chisels are on the agenda and perhaps a try at a blade to see how it shapes up Thanks again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 So far as standard alloys are concerned in the 92XX grades, you could have 9254, 9255, 9260 and 9262. There is no 9264 offered as a common grade from the mills but we can't assume it wasn't a special run for someone. Regardless, they are all heat treated in similar fashion and will yield medium to high hardenability from 45 to 58 Rc, depending on tempering conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 The rail clips I know of are generally 1040-1060 depending on manufacturer. 9264 should make nice large blades and good axes as well as tooling, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I make prybars and tuyere cleanout bars (12' long ) for a local steel mill out of 9260. It is a pretty tough steel. I have used some drops for hot and cold chisels and punches and it seems to hold up really well. I don't know the difference between the 9260 and 9264 but I would guess they are reasonably close in properties. The 9260 is fairly close to S6 tool steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I would think the 92 designation should mean the chemistry is the same for all 92 series steels and the 64 should be the carbon content. Am I wrong in this?This is untrue for the 10xx series as well as the 92xx series. Many smiths have been taught this, but it is a myth. see http://www.timken.co...se_Steels_1.jpg and Vfor 92xx see http://www.timken.co...bon_steels1.jpg for 10xx With designations as close as 9264, 9262, and 9260, the HT should be very similar. If you have a kiln, the books say to austenitize 9260 at 1600F and quench in oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOblacksmith0530 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Hmm, I took another look at my astm steel book and found I was wrong. I wonder if it is like others have said and the 92 or whatever designation is meant to be more of a properties designation rather than chemistry. I will have to do a better job of research in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOblacksmith0530 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 By the way thanks for the correction, now I am less blissfully ignorant...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whirly Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 Hmmm, just confirms that I've still got a lot to learn about steel types. Pretty much all I've used to date has come from scrap piles/dumps. Playing around with this stuff will hepl with the experience..and like MO, I'll be a little less blissfully ignorant. HW, it was a special run, for the new rail line through the NT a few years back and there will be heaps of these things around Thomas, for cutting edges, will this stuff weld into mild like other spring steels, or should I treat it differently? NJ, good to know as I need to make up some more hot/cold chisels. Will give it a go at making a touch mark as well and see how it performs thingmaker, thanks for the links...and if I don't have a kiln, which i don't, how would you treat this stuff? Any particular colour prioe to quench? (May have to try and get some of those Pyro crayons) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Mn and Si don't pose problems, CR can cause difficulties but that's like a 5160, a slightly more aggressive flux may help. I mix boric acid, (roach-pruf), in with my 20 muleteam borax (1:2) to make it a bit more "aggro" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whirly Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 Thank Thomas, I'll give that a try. I'll pick up some boric acid next time I go into town, in a month or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 With no kiln I'd try the magnet dance - It does work for some alloy steels. If the magnet dance fails, I'd order some tempil crayons in the desired range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Buying boric acid at the Chemist will cost $$$, buying it at the hardware store as roach killer is *much* cheaper and the stuff sold here is 97% boric acid 3% colouring agent to let you know it's not a food stuff. (The old stuff was 100% boric acid---I buy it when it shows up at the fleamarket cheap) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Lodge Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Thomas, After seeing this posted I decided to look into the roach killer and found that you can get 5 lbs of it pretty cheap. Less than 20$ from some sites. Seems JT Eaton has a product that contains at least 99% Boric Acid. I might have go pick some up and give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I appologize Roach-Prufe is 98% Boric Acid 2% inert but when I was double checking I ran across the MSDS for their Termite Pruf "Termite Prufe™ Product contains - Disodium octaborate tetrahydrate 98.00%" Didn't we discuss a flux that used "Disodium octaborate tetrahydrate"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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