knifedude1999 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Can you forge rusty steel? Does it put impurities in the steel? Annealing rusty steel? I was also wondering can you Anneal in campfires specifically, leaf springs or rasps? THX in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRiley904 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I think that after you anneal the steel you will find that it's no longer rusty. As for using a camp fire, I don't think that would get hot enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knifedude1999 Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 I think that after you anneal the steel you will find that it's no longer rusty. As for using a camp fire, I don't think that would get hot enough. Why would it not be rusty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRiley904 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 The rust burns off in the fire. Dude, asking questions like these leads me to assume you've never actually gotten steel hot. Have you built a forge yet? Most of the people here won't talk to someone unless they do some research and show some initiative. My suggestion to you is read the forums, fill out your profile some more, location helps, maybe a couple books, and light a fire. Always wear personal protection! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knifedude1999 Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 I am reading the Backyard Blacksmith and read the $50 knife shop by wayne goddard. And read quite a bit but nothing about rust in either book or on this fourm........ however no I have not lit a fire yet, I don't have the tools to hammer out metal, or a knife to heat treat. I am looking for tools, and I have a forge...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Different types of rust, red rust and forge scale. If it is rust, then forge it, unless it is rusted away to powder and flakes. Then you need a bloomery. If it has been weathering and IS _NOT_ rusty, don't forge it. (at least until you determine why it is not rusting, and make accommodations) There is a saying "if it don't rust, don't trust" that helps us stay safe. Coatings on the metal can gas off when heated. Zinc plating is bad, cadmium is worse! Chrome isn't very good or healthy either. (BTW all three can kill you when heated) Paints stink, and can release noxious fumes, but can also hide platings and other coatings. Zinc and cadmium can be pickled off, along with some other coatings. Chrome can be ground off or a plater can strip it and recover the chrome (useful if you are dealing with hundreds of pounds) Google "metal fume fever" and ignore all recommendations to "just drink milk" and get to the hospital if you are ever experiencing it. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knifedude1999 Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 I know not to used plated steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 While not ideal a campfire works for general forging, it'll take some tweeking to weld in though. And yeah, I have years forging in the campfire while the other guys on the drill crew were knocking back a halfrack of beer after work. Building or buying a proper forge and fuel will get you farther down the road to being a smith much faster than teaching yourself how to get the performance from a campfire. Red rust isn't a problem, scale sure can be though. What's your interest in annealing? Are you filing blades after quenching from critical? If you're forging forget about annealing any hardness will leave as you bring the stock to forging heat. Spring stock is a good choice for learning, it's pretty forgiving of heat treat mistakes. Just do NOT quench it till you're done forging and heck, grinding, filing, sanding, etc. Heat treating is the last step before final grind and polish. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knifedude1999 Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 While not ideal a campfire works for general forging, it'll take some tweeking to weld in though. And yeah, I have years forging in the campfire while the other guys on the drill crew were knocking back a halfrack of beer after work. Building or buying a proper forge and fuel will get you farther down the road to being a smith much faster than teaching yourself how to get the performance from a campfire. Red rust isn't a problem, scale sure can be though. What's your interest in annealing? Are you filing blades after quenching from critical? If you're forging forget about annealing any hardness will leave as you bring the stock to forging heat. Spring stock is a good choice for learning, it's pretty forgiving of heat treat mistakes. Just do NOT quench it till you're done forging and heck, grinding, filing, sanding, etc. Heat treating is the last step before final grind and polish. Frosty The Lucky. thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 For Y1K forging I will sometimes stack some of the fire stones to the side of the fire ring so I can pile hot coals up between them and then use a small single action bellows to blow them hotter. A good campfire will get steel to the red colour but it's generally quite slow compared to a forge with some air help---a good breeze can sometimes be channeled into your forge area and supplant a bellows... Having an appropriate rake to pull coals over from the fire helps too. I built a "shovel" from a wire gravel screen to transfer coals with as I can shake all the ash and small bits out of the coals before dumping them in the forge. Scale, that forms on all steel forged in an oxygen containing atmosphere, is a type of rust (rust comes in ferric and ferrous varieties) As a forge using a lot of scrap metal; most of the steel going into the forge is rusty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 The Wayne Goddard book is a good read for a new maker.And in this forim the knife stickies and the thread called New Knife Maker is something for you. In additionk if yoiuread a lot of the questions and answers that others have posted here there is a lot of information to helpl Coming in late October this site will have a one eve a week knife chat. An hour that we will cover how to make knives with pictures and descriptions for makers that are new to knives and forging and also those with more skills. Keep an eye on the home page. Marked Keeping you informed. The dates will show up there and there Are notes there about it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwisatz Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Soak the rusty metal in covered bucket of plain white vinegar, leave it outside because it stinks. Wipe off the rust after its soaked a few days. Repeat the process if you need to. Then you will see how badly damaged the metal may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Smith Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 It can be done, provided that there is some actual steel left under the rust and its not just powder that falls apart at the first touch. And a campfire, while not ideal, will work on a windy day or with a bellows. Just make sure you stick the piece in the middle of the coals under the fire, not in the actual flame; otherwise all you'll get is black heat--useless for forging but still enough to cook you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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