die stock for guillotine tool?

[188]

I'm in the process of putting together a guillotine tool (the smithin magician) and looking for suggestions on what type of steel most smiths are using for their dies. I was looking at 4140 and O1 but want to hear what others are using for their die stock. Any pros or cons to the 4140 or O1 would be appreciated. The 4140 is a little cheaper from the one source I've been looking at. Thanks for all replies.

[ThomasPowers]

Everyone I know makes theirs to use leaf spring which should be free, of good carbon content and easily worked by a smith.

Thomas

[HWooldridge]

I used mild steel and welded on the working surfaces. It was easier for me to cut everything square and stick tool steel shapes to the die stock. One problem with this is that the struck end will eventually mushroom but it can be reforged when necessary.

[mike-hr]

We're working on a couple sets currently, using .500 thick sawmill planer blades for dies. A buddy ended up with a modest pile of these blades, this is our first experiment with them. Woody's Junkyard steel BP suggests they are made from M-2 tool steel, and they are behaving similar. I plasma cut the blanks, and grinded to shape. I'm able to drill a hole for a mild steel striking bar, slotted and held in with a roll pin, after annealing in vermiculite with a good sized chunk of hot mild steel thrown in to slow the cooling process. I'll post some pictures in a few days if the whole thing works out.

[skunkriv]

I use mild steel. For many tools that is all that is needed (don't work cold iron) and for other applications I weld on different bits of this or that. On dies that get a lot of use I will weld something on the top, struck surface that can be ground off and replaced when it gets smushed.

[Shane Stegmeier]

I am using H13 and S7 (because I have it;-) and because it has excellent hot working characteristics and is pretty durable if heat treated and tempered correctly... (It's still pretty durable even if you don't do it right, it's just a little hard on your striking hammer if you try using it in the "normalized" state... Ie just letting it air cool and it will get harder than blue blazes, and will spall badly when struck, and will dent your hammer;-) For the good air hardening hot work steels you need to only harden the working end and leave the striking end in the annealed or partially annealed state, it will mushroom, but it will not spall as explosively. You can get good results from heating only the working end of dies made from S7, but S7 only gets full hard if you use an interrupted quench on it, (and I am leary of doing a differential hardening when I am pushing the quench so I would harden the whole die then temper the striking end... )basicly you do an intial oil quench with preheated oil, you quench in the oil checking the S7 till most all of the color is gone from the steel, then allow to air cool. To draw the temper from the striking end I like to take two thick blocks of hot steel and clamp them to the striking end and cover it in ash, lime, or vermiculite and let it cool over night. If you can make a boot that fits over the striking end out of 1/2"-1" stock and get that hot it will draw the temper from the end:-) But it has to cool slowly because it is an air hardening steel.

Using good tool steel in your dies they will last a long long time, and you can use them on hot tool steel... If you try to fuller hot H13 with mild dies;-) you will be redressing your working end of the die a lot, and moving the steel only a little;-). Used on hot mild steel they should never need to be dressed on the working edge...

4140 is ok steel and will work fine for most thick die shapes like fullers, butchers, sizing dies, and swages.

5160 spring stock is pretty durable and works for all the thick die shapes and is ok for hot cuts if you don't try to go too thin.

O1 is a nice tool steel, but is mainly used for things that require a very stable die... ie you machine it to .005th before heat treat and it comes out of heat treat at that same tolerance... Again good for most any kind of die you want to make, just don't go too thin because it doesn't hold its temper as well as the true hot work steels like H13 and S7.

In the end you build your SM for either the steel you have, or the steel you really want use... but if you choose a none standard size, or an expensive alloy when you need to make more dies it might be harder to have a nice matched set of dies for your SM. The dies that Jerry Hoffman sells are 3/4"x2" I believe, and although I haven't coughed up for any, the SM that we are building is designed to take those dies... ;-)

[Pault17]

Hey Finn;-
I like your tag line. you have everything in the right perspective.

[irnsrgn]

I just used the new modern mild steel and heated it up and quenched it, I welded short pieces of shaft to the tops for a striking surface, after all you are only working soft hot iron. I have had no dies go bad since I built it in the early 80's.

[Woody]

I make the dies for my gullotine tool out of mild steel and I about an inch or so of the working ends in iced salt brine. I use them only for working hot steel and in 5 years I have yet to need to re-grind the working ends.

[me miller]

If you can get them the "U" bolts from semitrailers are 4140. Nice 1 inch size and plenty of material.

[gerald]

I use mild steel with the working ends quenched in Super Quench. Works pretty good if you don't have a considtent source of tool steel drops.

[JerryCarroll]

I've used sway bar--tie rod--leaf spring. All seem to be holding up even after welding and no heat treat.