patrickrock Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 A friend was kind enough to give me a bucket of assorted rr spikes. So last night I started working on one marked MC (I assume medium carbon?) and trying to forge it into a knife. Well, I am having a heckuva time with this. First it took me forever to draw down the blade, 6-7 heats and just wearing my arm out, makes me think I was doing something wrong there. Next I'm have a hard time centering length of the blade and its distal taper in relation to the handle. And last, I kind of wanted a bit of shoulder between handle and ricasso, but can't quite figure out how to do that part and still keep everything centered up. In other words I have no idea what I'm doing, and can't visualize the steps I need to do to get to where I want to go. Does anyone know of a step by step process on how to forge a spike knife so that I could look at it and absorb the steps? Cheers, Pat Rock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Pat, a lot of experience is gotten through trial by error, so don't worry about messing something up. Beleive me, lots of people make worse mistakes than I'm sure you have What color are you working the steel at? Any pictures of what you have so far of your RR spike knife? The only spike knife I ever did I didn't draw out at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickrock Posted April 11, 2007 Author Share Posted April 11, 2007 Oh, Im not afraid of messing up, but I'd still like to have a rough idea of the sequence. Im working at orange to bright orange. I'm drawing down/out the blade... How did you do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Patrick, you are doing exactly what you need to do, spikes are pretty good size stock, and will take a few heats to get one drawn down into a blade, don't get discouraged, be patient. I usually start on the tip of the spike, and forge/flatten it into a orugh shaped point first, then work my way back up the spike. TO get the nice shoulder, instead of flattening the spike shaft part out in all directions, flatten it to one side, IE the edge. Hammer equally on both sides but forge it in one direction, that way it will form sort of the shoulder, which can be ground or filed afterwards depending on if you want it square or rounded. Keeping it centered is just a small matter of centering it with the hammer, slowly, with light measured blows, adjusting to one side or another accordingly. Then just work at it, if it was easy everyone would do it:D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchmancreek Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 I see a lot of these being made but remember that there is not really enough carbon in RR spikes to make a good knife. They make good letter openers and conversation pieces and are good ways to practice and improve your forging skills. I made a small spike tomahawk out of one just for practice once and it turned out decent. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickrock Posted April 12, 2007 Author Share Posted April 12, 2007 I agree there's not enough carbon to make a *good* knife, but there is enough to make a *useful* knife. But yes, agree, they are mostly for forging practice and conversation pieces, "Hey neat it's a knife made out of a railroad spike." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 On the other hand you could practice on the good stuff---say automotive coil spring, and get your habits set for how the higher carbon stuff works. I've seen many a person who started out smithing low carbon steel "accidently" ruin high carbon steel because their habits are set for how you can work the low carbon stuff. (work too hot, work too cold). There is a gent in the IBA who had made a railroad spike from a pattern welded billet---ie made a spike from a knife... I much prefer the spkes for kindling hatchets where their weight and carbon content works in their favour. Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 I agree, I have burned many a peice of coil spring or leaf spring just starting out after doing spike knives, you can just get them so hot when working hehe. Coil spring or leaf spring makes some world class knives, check out what Tim Lively does with them:Tim Lively -- Handmade knives since 1974 Not as a plug or anything, but I recently ordered his video, and it shows START TO FINISH how forge, file, mount, heat treat, and final fita knife, it is very amazing, and he explains it so ANYONE(even me) could understand NO PROBLEM. I definately recommend it to ANY budding knifemaker, and some who already make knives, it is a very interesting video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete46 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Don't Forget: Forge Thick Grind Thin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Old Sheffield England Cutler's saying: "If a good blade you would win, forge thick and grind thin" Of course we can avoid decarburization a bit better than they could. But for people starting out it is good advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAKA Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Patrickrock, I agree with most of what has been said in reply to your quest in that spikes are good for forging practice. I try to stay away from making knives out of them and stick to letter openers. I use them as gifts and they don't need all that much of an edge. JAKA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Patrickrock, below is a website with many different RR spike projects. Not much how-to but many different and interesting ideas. I have made a couple of oyster shuckers from spikes and found it good practice at drawing out and controlling shape. Good luck, Garyhttp://www.lametalsmiths.org/news/spike2.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronPuppet Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Seems to me a spike would make an interesting hammer, using the head of the spike as the hammers face. How does this use fit for low carbon stock? Christopher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickrock Posted April 17, 2007 Author Share Posted April 17, 2007 thanks all for the help, comments, and links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keykeeper Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 I turned one into a spoon, just to see if it could be done. Turned out alright, but next time I'll draw the shaft out more, for a longer handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Hammers are usually made from a medium carbon steel. I'd like about 20 points more carbon than in a RR spike for hammer stock myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronPuppet Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Thanks, Thomas. Very interesting. What do you think of re-bar? I happen to have quite a bit of stuff as big as my thumb. I could upset it and make a hammer and tools from it. Should one use a spark test to determine carbon content? Christopher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Blueprint BP0020 Spark Testing will give you a place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_sandy_creek_forge Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 IronPuppet, While the spikes don't make a particularly good hammer, some types of track (the ones that are bolted together) use BIG carriage bolts that already have a nice rounded head that is an excellent profile for making a dishing hammer. (Of course, DON'T go unbolting any track to get to one of those bolts) I happened upon a bunch of them where they'd torn out a side track just on the edge of town and hadn't bothered cleaning up after themselves. If you were to upset the threaded section and then punch/slit and drift for an eye, you should be able to use these for various forms of sheetmetal/heavy repousse hammers I would think. -Aaron @ the SCF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronPuppet Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Aaron, I just so happen to pick up just such a bolt while out for a walk with my dog the other day. Thanks for the tip. There was also a piece of track just laying there about 7 feet long, but I don't know how I would wrestle that home by myself. (ha ha) Christopher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Rebar varies wildly in carbon content from fairly nice to very soft. The higher grades are more even in content but then they try to keep it low enough that they can weld it without problems in the HAZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_sandy_creek_forge Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 IronPuppet, You've made my day. Now I know I am not the only one that takes the dog for a walk out on the RR tracks. I don't feel as crazy anymore. It is amazing what you can find out there... I came back the other night from a walk and hopped on a scale and wadda ya know? I'd gained twenty pounds somehow -Aaron @ the SCF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrous Beuler Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Funny how that happens... ain't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 IronPuppet, You've made my day. Now I know I am not the only one that takes the dog for a walk out on the RR tracks. I don't feel as crazy anymore. It is amazing what you can find out there... I came back the other night from a walk and hopped on a scale and wadda ya know? I'd gained twenty pounds somehow -Aaron @ the SCF YOU TOO!?!??! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryCarroll Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 When I make a knife from a spike I judge the handle length by using the width of 4 fingers and lightly fuller with a 1/2" round spring fuller--just enough to make it round. from there I draw out the blade (width & length). I also use a tool I made from a bearing race to make a round ball at the place to fuller instead of fullering. It takes a little practice to get the blade centered with the handle but it ain't bad. I have some pictures in the gallery. Some blades I pierce with a heart, star or cross or whatever. The interest in spike knives amaze me and they sell!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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