Unsalted1 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 So I made my wife a kitchen knife out of 5160 saw steel. I used stock removal to make the blade but since it is a kitchen knife I made it a little longer and thinner than my other knives (all three of the them) however it held an edge through about 20 cutting of meat vegetables and fruits and has lost its razor sharpness I have been told this steel should really hold up. So I am assuming I messed up my heat treatment and didn't get total knife heated well. Anyone ever tried to reheat treat a knife with handle material still on. Was thinking about trying to wrap the handle in wet cloth or something since I don't want to destroy the knife since its the first one I made for my wife and she doesn't want me to either. I could make a completly new one but hate the idea of a knife I made not being up to par with what it's capable of. Anyway would like to try to re heat treat the knife if possible. Let me know what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 How did you determine it lost the edge? Did it chip or roll? What edge angle did you put on it initially? What was the initial heat treat schedule? If it chipped, the edge may be too hard or the angle too fine. I would hone a less fine angle on the edge first, and consider drawing the temper as a later course of action. This you _may_ be able to do without removing the furniture, depending on what material you chose, and how you decide to draw the temper further. If the edge rolled, the blade may be too soft, or the angle too fine. I would hone to a less fine angle first, then consider repeating the entire heat treat schedule, with any corrections necessary. All the furniture will need removed for this. If you set your initial secondary bevel angle at less than 25 degrees included I would set the new angle at between 25 and 30 degrees then see. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsalted1 Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 I am basing the fact that is lost its edge by the fact it doesn't shave hair anymore I will try sharpening at a different angle and see if I get better results thank you for the info as far a heat treat schedule I used new transmission fluid heated to uncomfortable to have your hand in and brought the blade up to bright orange same color as I have used on other knives (need to get a steel magnet to be certain from now on) and quenched the blade edge first then brought the temper up to a golden brown color as I don't have a oven usable for tempering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 A knife maker would likely test the blade with a fine cut good file. If the file cuts it easy then it is too soft. if you have a carbon steel blade that holds and edge like you wish you can try file on that for comparison. if the file skates across youir blade it is too hard,,Too soft needs hardened again, too hard needs tempered Both of which need bare steel. You and I may see colors differently. For the color you describe it may have been toohot of a tempering cycle. But the file will let you know. Review the heat treat stickies for more info...You may lose a handle but may be able to save this blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Most any knife will need to be rehoned after a fair amount of use and resharpened occasionally. Most of my kitchen knives will not shave hair after being used for a while unless I steel them a bit (which I do). I think you may have unreasonable expectations for this knife. My kitchen knives are all commercially made of decent but not great quality... I am sort of infamous for keeping them sharp though. Even so I bet that only a few would shave hair at any random testing point. 5160 is good steel but not some phenomenal thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Johnny Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Just sharpen it- The finest cutlery mfg of the world have yet to produce a blade from steel that does not require reg maint to perform at its best. The barber stropes his razor between shaves,butchers hone there knives often,cabinet makers spend a lot of time keeping things sharp. Your knife is probaly fine it just needs to be touched up. If you do develop a blade that will still shave after Thanksgiving dinner or cutting a couple frozen chickens you should call Ron Popeil you will sell a million of them. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnewberry Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 What kind of cutting board does she use? If it isn't wood, then I know the next thing you are going to make for her, or get her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r smith Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 What kind of cutting board does she use? If it isn't wood, then I know the next thing you are going to make for her, or get her! You mean your not supposed to cut right on the tile countertop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnewberry Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 You mean your not supposed to cut right on the tile countertop? :) Nor those plastic cutting boards to say nothing about the tempered glass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal99 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I helped a friend of mine do some meat cutting this winter. He asked me to bring over my sharpening gear so I did. When I got there he was just getting started the cutting all I could hear after each slice was TINK slice TINK slice TINK he was using a glass cutting board . . . I bit my tongue . . . Honestly tho, It takes one amazing steel to cut much and still shave. I have one knife that I can widle for most of the day and "strop" a couple times right on my jeans and be able to shave (I swear there is no compound on my pants) lol The only drawback to that knife is it chips like glass. I have re-ground the tip a few times on it. Then again I am sort of hard on knife shaped pry bars. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 What's got me curious, 5160 saw steel ?. I'm not aware of any maker using 5160 in saw blades. Most are L-6, some are various custom alloys. I make a lot of knives using L-6 and have good succes. Heat slowly to nonmagnetic. Quench in oil. I use a version of "Goddards Goop" 1/3 parifin wax, 1/3 hydrolic oil, 1/3 vegitable oil. I seem to get better results, and since it is solid at room temp I don't have to worry about spilling it. Any way, temper at 400F. You might want a wire edge (go with a 425F temper for this type of edge) as they work good with soft meats and vegies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Nguyen Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I'm not sure why you would want the wire edge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 The wire edge is what most chefs want, this is why cutlery sets come with a steel rod. It is used to realign the wire edge. A wire edge rips through soft stuff very easily. You know you've got this kind of edge because it will bend over where your finger nail can catch it. They don't work good on bone and hard stuff. I've found a comprimise for my kitchen knives. They are made from a band saw blade used to cut through steel I beams. I don't know the alloy of this stuff but it makes a wicked strong blade. I use a convex grind and sharpen with a 220 grit stone. I work the wire edge off. It makes for a fairly course edge that can still handle cutting through frozen meat easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2519 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 When any of my kitchen knives loose there edge or I want to touch up the edge before it looses it, I run it lightly over the unglazed section on the bottom of an old mug (poor mans sharpening stone). The ceramic give it a good edge in no time at all. You have to find one with a smooth finish though or it will make a mess of the knife. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 To me a wire edge is just a key for me to look for when I sharpen a blade. AS I work through to finer grit belts, I know I have the edge right by feeling a wire edge. Then on to the next finer grit. At the finest grits it goes away. In any case in use that wire edge is lost really quick..If it is still there the steel rod removes it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal99 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Rich, the steel shouldn't remove the wire edge right away. You should be able to realign the edge several times before its gone and when its gone its time to sharpen again. It might feel like its gone because its been straightened out by the steel. Your less likely to have a wire edge on a harder knife then you are a soft knife. Sharpening knives is strange if you actually think about it. I can make a knive scary sharp so sharp that I can top off hair without even touching it to my skin but if you feel the edge it feels dull. Or I can sharpen it so it will cut skin like butter but will be a painful shave. All depends on if you want a push cut or a saw cut. If you don't want a wire edge, lighten up alot on the sharpening stone and alternate sides with each stroke. Thats what works for me anyways. My wife hates it when I sharpen all the kitchen knives :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Meta I am not new at this..I cut meat 40 years ago. I make and sell knives, Both carbon and SS. and I make my own damascus. I have skinned a lot of animals large and small. I worked as an auto mechanic and cut rubber hose almost everyday. I have a pretty good idea wot works for me in a blade and how to sharpen. I do not let a knife leave my shop with a wire edge...But maybe that is just me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal99 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Meta I am not new at this..I cut meat 40 years ago. I make and sell knives, Both carbon and SS. and I make my own damascus. I have skinned a lot of animals large and small. I worked as an auto mechanic and cut rubber hose almost everyday. I have a pretty good idea wot works for me in a blade and how to sharpen. I do not let a knife leave my shop with a wire edge...But maybe that is just me... WOW Rich!!! I'm not saying you don't know your way around blades at all. Not my whole post was directed at you, it was more of a general comment to the whole wire edge convo. I was just stating that a steel will not remove a wire edge if used properly is all, its made to keep the wire edge straight and after a while it breaks off. Sorry if I offended you man not what I was meaning to do. There's no need to get mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluidsteel Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 As too the original question, no, not any way to re heat treat your blade with the handle on. Heat it again, with whatever method you used to just past non-magnetic. Get a magnet. :-) quench in canola oil slightly warmed. Temper in an oven at 400f for 1 hour 2x. Another likely cause if losing an edge IF you had hit your temps right could have been decarb. I see it often where makers won't take enough steel off after heat treat to get below the decarb layer and test for hardness and can't figure out why they have low numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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