metal99 Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 Metal99, I would indeed say that your fancy has been tickled. You have been given specific instructions by 2 competent welders. Sorry if I sound harsh but give it a try. Your not being harsh man its all good, I understand where every one is coming from and why welding is going to be a definate fix. I just have some faith in the panel bonding adhesive after seeing the tests done on the stuff. We took two 18 guage peices of sheet metal 1x2" rectangles and overlaped them one inch with panel bonding adhesive. After that was dry we hooked the frame maching up to each end of the metal and pulled on it with the 10 ton ram. When the guage reached almost 8000 psi there was a huge bang and the chains fell to the ground only to discover that the metal tore in half just ahead of the clamp. That was from one square inch of bonding area so with an anvil that has a waist that has about 20 square inches of area to be bonded it just makes me wonder what kind of force it really would take to bust it. We also did the same tests on the same size sheet metal but we welded them together with four plug welds and they tore apart at the welds. Another test was done with the edges welded and they also tore right beside the welds where the heat affect zone was. I'm not meaning to argue with you guys but I honesty have some faith in this glue. If I get it welded I have to wait to find somebody to weld if for me for a price. If I glue it I can do it tomorrow at work. If the glue breaks I will still be able to weld it after that. I'm going to try the glue out first, not trying to upset anybody here I just have to see what its going to be like. I will keep you guys posted and let you know how it goes. I really do appreciate everybodys advice and time taken to help me out here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Then youi are all set..glad yoiu found a fix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Please, keep us updated on this glue. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Yes Julius, please keep us in the loop. It would be interesting to learn of a new trick for repairing anvils. Some of the modern adhesives are amazing. Some epoxies used for anchoring rebar into concrete will tear concrete apart before the epoxy lets go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal99 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hey everybody, I kinda had a crappy day at work today when I found out the glue was almost $100.00 a tube. . . So here is what I did. I took the anvil ouside and sandblasted the mating faces on the break. After bringing the anvil back into the shop the moisture started to build up and I noticed there were actually a number of tiny rust pits that the sand blaster wouldnt get out so I used the O/A torch to heat up the whole anvil eavinly just so it was nice and warm to the touch and let it cool off for a while to make sure the moisture was gone. Then I grabbed some phosfuric acid for eating rust and treated the pits and followed that by another quick blast with my spot blaster. I used copper rich weld through primer to seal off the serfaces. I did a V grind all the way around so I had about a 90 degree notch when put together 1/2 inch ish wide and about the same deep. I grabbed the torch and warmed it up all the way around the notch so it was pretty hot and then tacked it into place. I thought I had the groove deep enough to do a multi pass weld but I was wrong, with the 230 amp mig cranked right up and a slower wire speed it still nearly filled the groove with one pass but it was penetrating and really melting into the edges so I believe it should hold. Then I grabbed the torch and kept it nice and hot with some cold rags on the face for about fifteen minutes and just let it cool down on its own. Hope the mig will stick well, I'm kind of worried about having the groove to small. It lost just a tiny bit of the ring but honestly still hurts the ears alot. It bounces a ball bearing very well and doesnt change much throughout the face. I started cleaning it up a bit after I welded it. I ground all the pits out of the horn and buzzed the rust off of the face. I'm not sure what to do with the face tho, its got a number of small dings in it and has a bit of a wavy spot in the middle. I don't need it perfect but I do want it fairly straight so I was thinking. . . maybe a belt sander? Just to help keep it straighter when sanding out the pits? I tried my 8 inch grinder on it with a soft pad and 60 grit but the soft pad just follows the waves and stuff. Or should I just take it to a machine shop and get it planed? I think that might be a bit pricy tho. How much do you think the value is affected by the broken off base? The reason I ask is if its already dropped to almost nothing I was thinking of sand blasting the whole thing and then a hard wire brush to get that nice grey graphite look. Or should I just leave the patina alone and just clean it up with a wire brush? Sorry for blabbing so much. . . just kinda bored and dont have any body to share this hobby with here lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Wire wheel and a little oil puts a nice satin gloss on. A little sway is nice for straightening and I would leave it be. I wouldn't worry about small surface defects as they probably won't transfer to your work. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred1o1 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 the anvil i just linked got was far rustier than yours and in about 45min of wire brushing with a stiff wire cup fro a 4 1/2 inch grinder , q wipe down with some dry gas(i have a crate of them kicking around and it drys almost instantly and will not be a problem for the oil coat) and a rag to clean all the dust off and finally a coat of boiled linseed oil you are good to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal99 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Cool thats what I will do with it. I might try to go over my welds a bit more to try and hide them better too. Did most trenton anvils have an hour glass shaped hollow on the bottom? I read that the Hey Buddons were hour glass shaped on Bigred101's link and did a quick search on Trenton's shape and although I didn't get much info it seems like the Trentons didn't usually have an hour glass shape. What do you guys know about that? I think I read a while ago that trentons hollow was more round but I have read so much stuff lately I can't really remember . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal99 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Here are some pics and a couple videos of the anvil. When you click on the videos please turn your volume way down the ringing was so loud it distorted the sound and made it almost sound like the anvil was cracked or something it gave the video a weird buzzing sound when the ringing got real loud. I know this is a long shot but by the measurments I show here is there any way to tell how many pounds it is? I was thinking it was a 75 pound but after it was welded together . . . I can hardly carry it so I think it has to be 100-120. I don't have a scale and my mom thinks its going to bust hers lol.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsD7beZJeY8&feature=youtu.behttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED1N0DCBoow&feature=youtu.be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred1o1 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 unless i am mistaken that 98 marked on it below the usa would indicate that this is a 98lb anvil other than that way to bring that anvil back to life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal99 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 I was kinda thinking that about the 98 but when I looked up what it could mean I didn't really get much info on it. I am soooo happy that it didn't loose the nice ring and rebound like I thought might happen. In the video where I am lightly tapping it with the hammer you can see that when I get closer to the hardy hole the rebound goes away a little bit but with the ball bearing its just as good as anywhere els. I'm happy with it tho I don't think I could get another for that price in nice shape like this one other then being broken in half. Would have you guys payed $40 for it? I love the fact that its from 1899 :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred1o1 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 the best rebound is in this zone this is your you have a solid column of steel unlike out in the heal where there is less mass under the face of the anvil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 The early Trentons usually had the hourglass indents under the base while most others had the oval shaped indent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 And yes; I, a notorious cheapskate, would have been glad to pay US$40 for it. In general major damage or repairs plummets the price to say 1/4 what a "good" one will be. However that anvil still has a lovely face and the repairs are nowhere near the face and so they will only increase the value to someone like me who *uses* anvils. Note that most machine shops will cheerfully damage your anvil *AND* charge you for their work! Don't assume that because they are professional machinists they know squat about anvils. Especially after a repair lime that the face is most likely NOT parallel with the base and so the general machine shop will throw it on a mill and MILL FACE OFF until it is parallel to the base. I have seen several where they actually milled through the face and into the soft body metal just to protect the "worthless" metal of the base by throwing away the SOLID GOLD metal of the face. If you *MUST* have it milled be sure they flip it over and mill the base parallel to the face and then flip it back up and just kiss the face to clean it up and remember the edges are NOT supposed to be sharp. They will often be happy to throw away priceless face to make sharp edges that then have to be rounded. Yes I post this a lot as I have personally seen multiple anvils ruined by machine shops. One was owned by a friend who's anvil was milled too thin on the face to use and he got to pay for the privilege. After a decade or two of hiding it in the shop it was repaired at an anvil repair clinic where a professional weldor using *big* welders spent 5-6 hours building back a face using the Gunter method on it. Total cost would have been much more than buying another if he had had to pay commercial rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal99 Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Well today I cleaned it all up and oiled it :) I used worths rost off rust loostener and a wire brush on my drill and it came out pretty good. Then I sanded the face and horn down to 400 grit and called it done. The rust cleaned off better in some spots then others so its a bit blotchy now but oh well I'm happy with it. I'm really starting to get attached to this anvil lol. I told my uncle that I got it all fixed up and ready to go, he was very happy to hear that. He told me I had to name it "Uncle" lol. Here are a couple pictures of the finished product. Thanks again every one for all the great advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Looks good Julius. Nice work. You might want to consider taking classes from the WDM and joining the guild. Put that Trenton to work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 USE THAT PUPPY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal99 Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 I cant wait to use it :) Just trying to source out some more good steel to forge some more blades! I have some leaf springs but I dont know if there going to be any good as far as my research goes I think these ones are 4140 but oh well. Now to make a nice anvil stand :) Thanks for all the help everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal99 Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 Put that anvil to good use so far it's standing up well :) burnt up 50 pounds of coal and I'm lovin it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 What's the deal on this epoxy? Is it available in the states? Looks like you did a great job with the repair, and I'm confident that anvil will last you another few generations. Good job, hoss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal99 Posted September 3, 2012 Author Share Posted September 3, 2012 What's the deal on this epoxy? Is it available in the states? Looks like you did a great job with the repair, and I'm confident that anvil will last you another few generations. Good job, hoss. I didn't end up using the epoxy but I'm sure you can get it from any auto body supply store. The stuff I was going to use was 3m panel bonding adhesive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Thanks. I'll have to look it up next time I need a solid adhesive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal99 Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share Posted September 8, 2012 No problem man :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauraann Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 I have a Trenton anvil that has 100 219578 on the foot can someone tell me what this means Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njanvilman Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 16 hours ago, Lauraann said: I have a Trenton anvil that has 100 219578 on the foot can someone tell me what this means 100 is the weight in lb. 219578 is the serial number, indicating it was made approx 1945- 1947. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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