pkrankow Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I think you may have it a little soft, but you were trying to bend/break it so it probably is OK after you go through the same steps after it is straightened. When heating it above 1450F for forging, you are changing the crystal state so the annealing step (packing in sand) is unnecessary prior to forging. Boxing the part up in your forge is closer to annealing than normalizing, but that depends on how well insulated your forge is. You can normalize by placing the heated part on a firebrick, or some other not very conductive, fire resistant material to air cool in still air. A small punch will cool and be ready for the next step in about 15-30 minutes. Lastly you need to calibrate your eyeball some. Your "yellow" and my "yellow" are probably two very different temperatures. Go to Radio Shack and get a pack of ceramic donut magnets. Take apart a piece of phone or network wire for a single strand of copper, and hang the donut so it will swing freely. When you are heating, pull the part and wave it just below the magnet. If the magnet is attracted, the steel has not reached 1450F yet, and if the magnet swings freely it has reached 1450F. You have to be careful because the point the magnet becomes attracted again on the way back down is somewhere about 800F, which is a high black heat. Any magnet will work, but ceramic magnets are more heat tolerant, but you don't want to be actually touching the magnet to the heated metal. Good job. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeddly Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 I decided to attack it again, and ended up bending the tip of the tool 90 degrees. It cracked. Then I snapped it all the way off. Pics tonight. I have an old speaker magnet that I was using. But will find a ceramic magnet this week. Why don't you touch the magnet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Heating a magnet makes it not a magnet anymore, regardless of the technology. Your speaker magnet is a good choice, but not everybody has those. They are typically a "rare earth" magnet, but may be some other technology depending on the age of the speaker. The Radio Shack ceramic donuts magnets are only a couple bucks for 5, but since you have a good magnet I would save the time and money (unless you really want to) Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeddly Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Thanks for the tips Phil. A hanging magnet seems like it would be more precise than my method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I use a magnet that holds steel for welding at either a ninety degree or forty five degree I got a few of them for not alot of money at a big box chain tool store. Welding supply shops sell them for a few bucks more. I stick it to face of anvil so one side sticks out over the edge. I do touch the steel to it each time and the magnet does not lose any of its magnetic properties. What that does do is suck a tad of heat from the steel. I look at the color of the steel at the time the maget no longer sticks..then I bring heat back to that color and quench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric sprado Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Any music store that also works on amplifiers has TONS of broken speakers with good magnets. I use them for picking up horseshoe nail ends, holding things, etc.. Always free in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 To follow up on what Phil said: (1) No need to anneal before forging. Just heat the steel to a forging temp and go to it. (2) I don't know of any advantage to annealing after forging unless you're going to do a lot of stock removal. Even then, I do quite a bit of file work on normalized steel and it generally works fine. (This will not necessarily work with deep-hardening steels, which may harden during air cooling. Even steels like O1 can do this in thin sections.) Normalized high carbon steel isn't as soft as spheroidized annealed stuff straight from the mill. But there are some potential disadvantages to annealing with some steels. I'd rather avoid those. (3) For purposes of what you're doing, normalizing means heating above critical and allowing to air cool well into the black. (It doesn't have to cool to room temperature.) One good approach is to normalize two or three times, starting at a temp a couple or three hundred degrees above non-magnetic and ending just above non-magnetic. The hotter cycle is intended to help equalize the grain size, and the subsequent cycle(s) to reduce the grain. Each normalizing step only takes me a few minutes. Slow cooling in the forge is unnecessary and is likely to have some undesirable effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeddly Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Sure is alot to this heat treating stuff. I appreciate all of the advise guys. I thought you had to cool the steel slowly on each step. This normalizing step sounds too simple now. So, when I left the piece in the forge over a long cooling period, I was in fact annealing it, instead of normalizing? I guess normalizing is basically like being nice to the steel after you beat the heck out of it, and then you give it one last shock (quench) to show it who's boss. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 That's right, it IS simple. Just follow the steps in my earlier post and that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeddly Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Thanks Randy. I can't wait to get back to the heat and make more tools! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Analogies: Normalizing is more like letting steel catch it's breath and lower it's heart rate after a brisk workout. Annealing is more like spending an hour in the hot tub after a brisk work out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 there is a heat treating section here, and a seperate sub-section for thin sections like blades, reading that may help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeddly Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Thanks Steve. I browsed through your post in the stickies and found it really informative. It has occured to me that there is alot more to smithing than just swinging a hammer. I never really knew. Every day I read this forum, the larger it seems to get. With all of the combined knowledge here, a newbie such as myself basically has the world at his fingertips. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I guess normalizing is basically like being nice to the steel after you beat the heck out of it, and then you give it one last shock (quench) to show it who's boss. :) Yes, but don't forget the dip in the hot tub (temper) after to keep it happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.