herchammer Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Howdy folks, 'got a question for ya. We are scheduled to receive a new CNC mill, at work, and the guys, in our metal tech shop, were trying to come up with a couple of projects as "test runs". I asked if they could mill a shovel blank swage block for me, and they thought that would be at least one worthy project. So, as this is not my area of expertise, what type of steel would I want to use for it? 5160?? I didn't think I knew where start, with trying to determine the answer, then I realized " of course I know where to start". That's where you fine men and women come in. I'd genuinely like to know what you would, or have, used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkunkler Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Plain mild steel should be fine, but if you have something tougher, go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 John I have a ton of tooling made from mild steel but not any tooling as you describe per se. Forging hot 14-16 ga sheet down into mild steel has worked for me quite a while. As I see it, the worst that could happen is that you would dent the machined part you are wishing to make and you would have to build it up and flap wheel it out again. One more thing, the boys doing the machining may balk at anything too hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 If you are doing that might as well make a whole block with edge profiles, ladle and spoon depressions, etc. Ductile cast iron is a common material choice because of ease of casting. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 A jillion years ago, I was visiting Greenfield Village near Detroit, and the museum had on display an antique male and female setup for the shovel pan. The bottom portion was approximately 1/2" x 1" bent the easy way into a shovel shape. The male was about 3/4" or 7/8" thick and fit inside the other, having an allowance for the thickness of the pan. The male had a length welded on for a handle. For production work with a swage block, I think that a male block could be made, but you might need to build a stop on the open edge to keep the pan from sliding backwards while hot working. Does anyone have experience with working this way? Or do y'all just hammer the sheet into the cavity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 A jillion years ago, I was visiting Greenfield Village near Detroit, and the museum had on display an antique male and female setup for the shovel pan. The bottom portion was approximately 1/2" x 1" bent the easy way into a shovel shape. The male was about 3/4" or 7/8" thick and fit inside the other, having an allowance for the thickness of the pan. The male had a length welded on for a handle. For production work with a swage block, I think that a male block could be made, but you might need to build a stop on the open edge to keep the pan from sliding backwards while hot working. Does anyone have experience with working this way? Or do y'all just hammer the sheet into the cavity? I have thought about doing this for mine. Then set it up in the press. I am curious to see if anyone has done this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Harold, I haven't done shovel blanks that way but have done sea shells that are as big as a fireplace shovel and it works out great. I have a bottom recessed die and a top die that fits into that. The hammer in the picture is just for scale. The press does the work, but no reason a hammer wouldn't work once the piece is centered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herchammer Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 Thanks for the replies folks. I'll have to talk to the boys in the machine shop, and see what they think about material choice. When we talked about it yesterday, they didn't balk at the mention of something harder, but they may not have been thinking that in-depth, about what the project might entail. Thanks for pointing out possible mill limitations Steve. Phil, I'd love to have the ladle and spoon depressions as well, but didn't want to press my luck. These fellas have been great as far as letting me use the power shear, slip roller, and hydraulic brake; I'd hate to "wear out my welcome" with these guys. Randy, those sea shells are very cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elemental Metal Creations Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 show them some pics of swedge blocks and see what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 What type of steel do you use randy Harold, I haven't done shovel blanks that way but have done sea shells that are as big as a fireplace shovel and it works out great. I have a bottom recessed die and a top die that fits into that. The hammer in the picture is just for scale. The press does the work, but no reason a hammer wouldn't work once the piece is centered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Thanks Randy! Those look really great. This is what I am kind of thinking of doing. Making a top die by hamering out a heavy piece of plate and reinforcing it by welding a grid of flat bar on edge. Might have to put a plate on top to sandwich the grind in the middle. Do you think it will hold up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Harold, Don't know if that will be enough strength to hold up. So why not just use a solid piece? Some times I use mild steel and harden it. It is moderate carbon so gets moderately hard. Other times I use 4140 tool steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windancer Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Check the blacksmith tool sites and print out a few pics with dimensions for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtforge Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 One of the guys from our group had a school machining group make one for him. Large piece of mild steel worked very well. When I make shovels in my cast iron swage block I use a 1/2" thick plate profiled to fit in the bottom of the block minus the material thickness. Set it in my hydraulic press cold with a spacer and press it down. It wrinkles a little at the curve but they get hammered back in. Works great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Harold, Don't know if that will be enough strength to hold up. So why not just use a solid piece? Some times I use mild steel and harden it. It is moderate carbon so gets moderately hard. Other times I use 4140 tool steel. Thanks again Randy. A solid piece would be plan b and I should make it plan a with your advice. I just do not want to do it twice. Although my shop motto sometimes seems to be is; " I do nice because I do it twice." I am just not looking forward to all the grinding with the 9" man grinder. :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNJC Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 herchammer, did it get made, if so how is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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