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lungs & safety


karine

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Lung safety is a very important topic for metal workers. Two of my neighbors were professional welders and both died of lung cancer. They both smoked but the widow of one man told us the doc told her the combination of welding and cigarette smoking is about 3 times more toxic than either on its own. I have never smoked and tend to stay in shape but several years ago I had an MRI done after an X-ray showed shadows in the upper 1/3 section of my lungs. The technician glanced at my images and asked if I was a welder. I responded that I'd been around it for a long time and he commented that the "shadows" were likely from grinding debris and that I appeared to have very mild silicosis. I never noticed any loss of lung power (maybe because I work out regularly) but the damage is real. Prior to this episode, I rarely wore breathing apparatus for any process, whether I was forging, welding, painting or grinding. I now wear the best particle shields I can buy - they are not actual respirators but much better than nothing.

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For all grinding operations I use the cheap dust masks with a valve in front, less fog-up of my glasses. When I am welding I have a 20" box fan set on low speed near my work area, I position myself so the fumes are blown away from me. An exhaust fan removes the smoke from the shop.

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I also have a 20" evacuation fan (2 speed) positionned on the wall near my welding table, low speed is enough and if I need to weld or grind further in the shop I set it on high. (I still do wear a mask when grinding).
My shop measures 16' x 12' so this seems to do quit well for me. I've seen a big difference before and after installing the fan.

Naz

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It's a shame that most construction workers have a "better than you" attitude toward anyone trying to stay safe. I don't know how many times I've seen some sort of mockery for someone wanting to wear a mask, or ear plugs, or anything else. I'd say respiratory protection is at the top of that list.

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Who said anything about safety not being important ?????
The first question was "I'm trying to find the best available (yet affordable) particle mask/ air unit for working in the shop... which includes occasional commissions in aluminum and stainless. (Nasty stuff!)".
Do you have any suggestions ???

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He was just pointing out that in the real world a lot of places have strong social pressure against people wearing proper safety equipment and that this was dumb!

I know several knifemakers who have made their own positive pressure systems using a fan located outside the shop in a known good area and having a *FILTER* around it, (one did not filter till after the "wasp incident"; but now does!) Regular duct work to the place over the usual work area and then flexible duct work down to an adapted hardhat with face shield. Not as portable as the belt ones but cheap and effective! (and uses *fresh* air; something many shops could profit from!)

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I appreciate ALL of your posts.

@Arean Ellis: I DO agree that I have seen quite a few guys on a project just grab a tool to "get er' done". Almost always, I add "umh, goggles please" and more often than not they scoff. Those are usually NOT professionals in the particular field of the tool they're grabbing (at least they don't work 40 hrs a week with that tool) but I tend to wonder if they had more respect for their own safety, & weren't in such a hurry, they wouldn't blow off my recommendation.
(disclaimer" by "guys", I DO mean of both sexes!)
And It's a good possibility that if they grumble about safety glasses, you'd have to threaten their employment to get them to put on a mask!

In my own shop, I don't care they like me or NOT, they're wearing the gear or they're getting out. Why? Because I'm the boss and I said so.
Even my own kids (16, 17 & 21) thought I was a being a little ridiculous about the ALWAYS with safety glasses & ear protection, until they saw me demand it of a grown man. Then they chilled out a bit.

@ HWoolrdrdge, Glad for your comment! (Sorry about the silicosis, even 'mild', that's scary stuff). & yours are just the kind of stories I'm hoping to avoid... but after years of working in this already, it's scary reminder of how important this search is! Thanks for sharing.
Maybe it would be good to talk to our doctor about some kind of exam to see where my husband and my lungs are at *right now*.

Naz and I (& I'm sure a few others) have a good hunt in front of us!
I mean, we plan to someday have grandkids, right ???

I'd appreciate any comments, Glad to have an area here to discuss.

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I would recomend a positive pressure mask . they are not cheap but neither are your lungs.
the main benefit of the £400 option as opposed to disposables is that you get a stream of fresh cool air across your face which is normally quite pleasant .
I find that i soak through ordinary dust masks when forging . and yes I wear a mask for most forging , grinding and welding.......

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I'm now investigating taking an older helmet and adding air flow... Anyone have any advice or recommendations re: the Speedglass helmets by 3m?

(I'm thinking I might need one of their helmets to add their 'Adflow' system to... maybe something else can be worked out, though too. Still investigating!)

Here's a video of their 9100xx Auto Darkening Welding Helmet...



I'm looking at a 9000 series "flexview" (the 9100xx in the video actually has an extra large screen, and does not have a flip-up shield aka "flex view" I am looking for)
But he talks about other neat additions their helmets have.
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Respiratory Protection Equipment, respirators, and self contained breathing aparatus, must be constructed to strict NIOSH Standards. There is a reason for that. Don't attempt to construct your own system. I cannot emphasize strongly enough the falicy of home made respiratory protection equipment. Would you go scuba diving with a home made system? You only have one pair of lungs and damage to them is not repairable. If you want to spend the last 10 or so years of your life on Oxygen 24/7 where you can't walk from the bedroom to the kitchen without stopping to rest and catch your breath then go ahead and cobble together some makeshift piece of junk because you can save a few bucks. You will need it later in life when you can't work and the medicines to keep your airways open cost hundreds of dollars a month. If you can't afford proper Respiratory Protection Equipment then find another job until you can. One last thing, the filter cartridges on respirators start degrading the minute the sealed package is opened. They need to be chaged regularly or you might as well not use a respirator. To prolong their life, store the respirator in a zip lock bag when not in use and clean the respirator after every use. Remove the filters, wash the respirator with mild soap and water, rinse and dry, then replace the filters and store in an air tight bag.

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When I said that I am examining "building" I mean building my own package... with parts from the same company. Not buying the $2,000 system.. but maybe the $300 helmet and and an $800 air unit and putting them together myself. When getting two systems (one for my husband and one for myself) it's TWICE the savings... making me, at least, think about it. Downside= By purchasing their kit in pieces, I could find myself missing a $300 component here or there... just wondering if anyone had tried this with 3M complete air system & components. I might not get as big of a "deal" as I think, if I'm not careful managing my own "system"s.

In other words, I'm not exactly thinking of building from scratch. But *thank you* for the warning!
& now I've found the "standards" http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/respstds.html

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First, sit down and figure out just how much your life is worth in dollars and cents. Then if the cost of properly made respiratory protection equipment is more than that amount go ahead and kill yourself or others, if the cost of the equipment is less than the value of your life then buy the equpment. For the life of me I can't figure out why people are continually trying ot reinvent the wheel. The time and effort you spend in chasing down pieces, assembling them and making sure you have all the right parts could be better spent making things that can be sold to provide income.

The fact that you have asked a question about the advisibility of constructing your own system indicates that you have some doubts and that you are looking for someone to reinforce your idea. That is the rational half of your brain telling DON'T DO THIS. Listen to that part of the brain. What I find apalling is that there are many people out there that will actually agree with you, encourage you and chide me for wanting to error on the side of safety.

Now the question is will this prevent you from making your own system. The answer is NO. Why, because you will get immidiate positive results from constructing your own system. That is, you will save a few bucks and that is what you are after. The fact that you risk doing perment, irreversible possibly fatal damage to your lungs is something that is in the future. The effects may not show up for 20 years or so, there is a possibility that you may get lucky and nothing will happen.

One last thing, if you have a commercial establishment and OSHA walks through the door and sees a home made system, expect a fine that will set you back many times more than what the cost of the proper system would be. But, there again, that is in the future and may not happen so it had little if any value as a deterant.

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Not the same thing Thomas, not even close but all of those who want to build your own respriators, please do so immediately that increased the possibility that you will remove your genes from the human gene pool before you have a chance to reproduce.

A few years ago when Glenn started this site I had a discussion with him about possibility helping with questions regarding safety and environmental problems. At that time Glenn told me that everything would have to comply with all regulations concerning the subject. I guess that standard has been relaxed considerably ove time.

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Before we get too much further into the discussion, we need to define the problem as related to the question.

the best available (yet affordable) particle mask/ air unit for working in the shop... which includes occasional commissions in aluminum and stainless.


What size shop?

What volume of work, minutes or hours or daily for many hours? Now at least double that estimate. or err on the side of caution and select a unit that can be used 8 hours a day.

The unit should protect the user from grinding of ferrous metals, aluminum, and stainless at the start as well as other unnamed metals that may be included later such as brass, copper, galv, etc.

Woody missed the cost of the hospital (ICU, tests, and rehab), the lost wages, the funeral, and the cost of worry and grief to the friends and family.

Thomas, auto repair is a bit different as it is replacing parts, done by a bolt on mechanic, on a pre-built and working system. The mechanic does not (usually) make the replacement part himself, or buy all the individual parts and assemble those parts into a car. Your point is considered. Changing an air filter whether on a car or on a respirator is much the same.

The person buying the finished product will pay a bit extra per item, to cover your (safety) equipment as you will raise your prices a bit due to that cost. That same person will not brag on the fact that this was one of the items that caused the blacksmith, that make that item for them, it to get sick and have to give up blacksmithing. Dead is forever. Close to dead (life assisted or life supported) can last for "almost" forever in the view of the individual involved.

Personal safety is just that, YOUR personal responsibility to keep YOU safe. We try to provide information so you can make the choice that is correct for you.
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A few years ago when Glenn started this site I had a discussion with him about possibility helping with questions regarding safety and environmental problems. At that time Glenn told me that everything would have to comply with all regulations concerning the subject. I guess that standard has been relaxed considerably ove time.

IForgeIron has always pushed safety, from the start and still do.

IForgeIron has grown and so has the amount of traffic and posts on the site. Today it is difficult to read every post so we depend on everyone (all members) to push safety.

We have come to recognize that not everyone takes safety to a personal level. As much as we would like to, we can not come into your shop and keep you from doing something that will get you hurt. We can only try to inform and educate you as to the hazards.

It boils down to this:
Personal safety is just that, YOUR personal responsibility to keep YOU safe. We try to provide information so you can make the choice that is correct for you.
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  • 3 months later...

:blink: i always use glasses and earmuffs when grinding,but never a mask. dont think ive ever seen anyone wear one while grinding.i stupidly thought all the sparks are firing away from me and being metal should be heavy enough not to be airbourne for long.i did alot of grinding today and felt a bit dizzy when i went in the house, so i thought i would do some research and found this.i will most definately be wearing a mask from now on.
thank you IFI you have saved my life!
gary

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