tsb5137 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Greetings! For a long time, I had always wanted to try blacksmithing, even if I only do it once. Recently, at an SCA event, i got my chance, and found it very much to my liking. Unfortunately, I am a college student wiht a very limited budget and no time to hang out with an experienced blacksmith. So i turn to this forum, with a request for tips, advice, guidance, and general help. Talking with the blacksmith at the event, he told me i could use an old charcoal grill and a hair dryer as a blower, and with a few modification i could have a very basic forge. I was wondering the viability of that set up, and if it would be able to last for a while, as it might be my forge until i graduate college. Second, I find myself lacking a very key item, an anvil. where would i be able to find one cheaply, or is there anything i can use as a pseudo-anvil until i can find/afford a proper one? Im sure i will have many more questions, but ill keep this post short and ask other questions in the proper sub-catagory. Tyler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brynnb Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I'm in a similar position to you, but I just graduated and now have a garage so getting started will be easier for me. I found blacksmithing classes for really cheap at a local community college (in DFW if you're also in the area). Maybe there will be something similar near you? I'm getting a railroad track section mailed to me to use as a starter anvil to keep costs down for now. It was free and I only paid for the shipping, about $15. It isn't a very good option but it works and is super cheap. Even small real anvils are super expensive ($250 is about the cheapest I've seen for a 80 pounder). From what I read your setup is probably fine. I'm going the coffee can forge route, which you might want to look into because it's more portable and cleaner. Also probably cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Read, read, and then read some some. Start with the "All the Stickys" and "Finding a Blacksmithing group near you" at the top of the page here. Also look for a book called the $50 Knife Shop by Wayne Goddard, about getting started on the cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 There are over 1/4 million posts on IForgeIron, 5,511 topics or questions, and 64,869 replies in just the *Blacksmithing, General Discussion* section alone. The anvil section has 1,692 topics or questions, with 18,700 replies. The forge section has 1,406 topics or questions, and 13,287 replies. You need to slow down just a bit and read what has already been posted on IForgeIron. Others have already ask these questions, many times, and have been given good answers and information. To answer your questions do a search for the 55 Forge, or search Blueprint 0133 the now famous 55 Forge. A even simpler forge is the side blast forge. A forge is nothing more than a container to hold solid fuel while it burns. A gas forge is nothing more than a container to hold the gas while it burns. An anvil can be anything with a mass of 50 to 100 pounds or more to hammer upon, the heavier the better. You do want most of the mass under where you are hammering. If you can find a piece of rail road track, stand it on end and hammer on the end of the track. The entire mass in under the hammer. If you lay the same piece of rail road track flat or horizontal, you still have only the mass under the hammer being used, not the entire length of track. (If you get a full 30 feet of track, and bury it 27-1/2 feet into the ground, or lay it out flat, one way will work MUCH better because all the mass is under the hammer.) Go past the rail road yard and ask to see the construction crew, tell them what you want to do, offer a dozen donuts and most likely they will offer you a short section of rail, a rr coupling, or something heavy to pound upon. Blacksmithing has been around since Tubal-Cain, the 5 great grand son of Adam. Ironwork in Europe has been around hundreds of years. They did what you see today using tools available to them at the time. There was a signature by one of the members of IForgeIron that summed it up rather well. *Tools do not make a blacksmith, the blacksmith makes the tools* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Fabrizio Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Dumpster diving – Keep your eyes open people throw lots of good stuff to build with away! My storage areas at my house are over flowing with good useable materials that I get for FREE!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7nzmhFwGoM&feature=related This pretty much explains what you need to get started in blacksmithing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Fabrizio Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 You don't even need shoes!!! :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksnagel Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Hoping to define "proper anvil" In time things will come. Where are you located Tyler? There may be a blacksmith near you. Mark <>< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 don"t over think it network with your local blacksmith group. lots of help there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Allyn Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 This pretty much explains what you need to get started in blacksmithing. OK. but where did that first set of tongs come from? Cross-threading points! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 He brought them from home (grin) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Browne Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Wonder what sort of rock that anvil is made of?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Allyn Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Probably granite. It's about the toughest stuff around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrous Beuler Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 tsb, Welcome to IFI. Where are you located? You don't have to pinpoint it, just a general area or city is fine. I suggest you follow John McPherson's advice and locate the blacksmithing group near you. No matter where you are there is likely a group or even several within a reasonable distance of your location. I understand that you are a college student and this greatly limits your prospects for the time being but what you can do is attend some meetings. Many of the groups have reduced rates for students and may even wave your dues. Just go. That's the important thing. Even if you only observe that is a far sight better than not going at all. You will learn a lot just being there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlissStreet Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 So i turn to this forum, with a request for tips, advice, guidance, and general help.Which you will find in troves, especially in the older posts. There is an archive of information here, use the search often. Few things are new ideas, chances are someone has done what you are thinking of or knows someone that did.Talking with the blacksmith at the event, he told me i could use an old charcoal grill and a hair dryer as a blower, and with a few modification i could have a very basic forge. I was wondering the viability of that set up, and if it would be able to last for a while, as it might be my forge until i graduate college. Second, I find myself lacking a very key item, an anvil. where would i be able to find one cheaply, or is there anything i can use as a pseudo-anvil until i can find/afford a proper one?I'm a bout 2 weeks in front of you, so I think I feel the pressure of your impending leap. I'm happy to say, it's a fun leap to take. Everything you see as an obstacle is really just a project in disguise. I made an anvil and stump, a forge, a pair of tongs and chisel within 2 weeks and on a budget of roughly $300. Trust me, there is nothing stopping you, given some time and thought. The anvil issue has been beaten to death (see what I did there?) and there are more solutions then you think. Mine is a 4" x 4" x 8" block of mild steel. The grill forge with the hair dryer blower works, I have to watch it carefully or else I will burn metal in mine. The clay lining ratio is repeated often here, just look. Hammers are everywhere, just take the time to round and polish the face. Steel is literally lying around once you start looking. White vinegar, water, and canola oil are already in your home for quenching and etching. The grocery stores, hardware stores, and home furnishing stores come alive with possibility when you look at them through the "cheap skate, what can I make this into, blacksmithing" prism. Do it. Do it now and make lots of mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Allyn Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 The grocery stores, hardware stores, and home furnishing stores come alive with possibility when you look at them through the "cheap skate, what can I make this into, blacksmithing" prism. Do it. Do it now and make lots of mistakes. Estate sales can be a bonanza, too. You might not find a forge, anvil or vise, but there's plenty of useful blacksmithing stuff to be had for a bargain price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 As noted previously, any block of steel, even a flatish rock can be used as an anvil. Hammers are usually found at flea markets. Yes a grill and hair blower (with heating element removed) can be used as a forge, how long it lasts depends on how it is used. Being that you said that you are in college and don't have the time, and likely don't have the money to take blacksmithing instruction, I would suggest checking out the various art and other departments on campus to see if by chance they might have blacksmithing equipment and even a course available. A few colleges do. On the other hand being pressed for time you might need to focus instead on your studies. At least two friends in college flunked out due to spending too much of their time inventing and building stuff. The one friend built a motorized sliding door to the photo-lab in his parent's basement as well as other projects. There will be plenty of time to take up blacksmithing, focus on your education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 You know I was tired of reading where folks should expect to spend big bucks getting started in blacksmithing so one weekend I went out and scrounged/built a complete beginner's set up for under US$25! (and the most "special" tool used was a 1/4" drill!) Anvil: There are no pseudo anvils there are ANVILS and NOT-ANVILS. The London pattern anvil has been in use for about 200 years now, a big chunk of something heavy has been used as an anvil for over 2000 years so which one should represent what an "anvil" looks like? (Take a look at the japanese swordsmiths anvils---a rectangular hunk of steel---no horn no heel---yet most folks consider that the katanas they forge on that simple anvil to be passable...) For my project I scrounged a broken knuckle off a RR car coupler---had a flat spot and a curved spot and weighed around 80 pounds and was FREE. Forge: I took a brake drum I found on the side of the road and mounted it on a stool frame I fished from a dumpster (1/4" drill and a couple of bolts from the fleamarket) Using plumbing fittings I got from the fleamarket I rigged up a tuyere and ash dump (floor flanges, nipples, T, cap) This was the biggest expense as I must have spent $8 or so on getting the used pieces. I also found a scrap of sheetmetal that I could bend into a C and fit it inside the brake drum edge as a Fence allowing me to build a deeper fire and move stock in and out of it through the open part of the C---I also cut a "mousehole" opposite the open end so I could stick long pieces through the hot spot and out the other side. (cut with a cold chisel and a hammer) Blower: I found an old "handi vac" (like the 1960's version of a dust buster---but with and Al housing.) It cost me $2 as it was missing the bag---just had a round Al tube that dumped air where the bag would go. As it was a universal motor it could be regulated with a rheostat---another dollar at the fleamarket. The air transport tube was a radiator hose from the flea market for a buck. (It was one of the corrugated ones and would whistle a note when the air was turned on full) Hose clamps from fleamarket to hold the blower to the hose to the pipe for the air at the forge. Now I spent $5 for a nice double jack hammer and $1 for a ball peen and $2 for a set of visegrips to use while making the first set of tongs. This was my favorite billet welding forge for several years even over the commercial forges I had in my shop. So with this set up you could be making pattern welded blades. I had one student who was in college and got bit by the smithing bug. As I recall he built a gas forge in an old gas grill and ket it chained to a fence out back of his dorm with the other grills that students had back there. You didn't know it was a forge until you lifted the lid and saw the propane forge inside it. He also kept scrap steel under his dorm bed and replaced the desk in the alcove in the wall with a work bench with a postvise on it---and kept his grades up and graduated and works as a metallurgist now... A far better anvil---though costing $25 was made by a friend of mine using a scrounged forklift tine: http://www.marco-borromei.com/fork.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 My first forge I built out of wood scraps, basically a box supported by 2-by-4s and a smallish bellows made from plywood and a piece of leather. The bellows was connected by black pipe to the box through the side. The pipe was capped and holes near the end of the pipe provided the air flow. I lined the bottom of the box with scrounged bricks to protect the bottom. Instead of tongs I used vise-grips, and an old cross-peen hammer from the flea-market. Fortunately a friend's brother-in-law had a small 80lb anvil in the back of his van and sold it to me for $25 ( he sort of had a side business of buying and selling stuff), but any chunk of flattish metal or rock would have served. By tucking the small bellows under my arm and putting it away with my anvil, the box forge sat in front of a knife shop and no one saw it as valuable enough to bother with. One member of this forum reportedly did some emergency blacksmithing using a wood camp fire on the ground for a heat source, a carpenter's or ball-peen hammer for the hammer, a pair of pliers for his tongs, and his trailer hitch as his anvil. Almost any carbon material can serve as a heat source. If you are a member of the De Beers family, my humble understanding is that diamonds have pretty much the same qualities as coal for use in a forge. Note: If there are any members of the De Beers family on this forum that would be willing to let me have free sample 100 LB bag of diamonds to experiment with in my forge, please let me know. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlissStreet Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Note: If there are any members of the De Beers family on this forum that would be willing to let me have free sample 100 LB bag of diamonds to experiment with in my forge, please let me know. The De Beers were the farmers who owned the land and never saw a cent past the initial buy out. It's the Oppenheimer family that you want to be talking to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsb5137 Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 thank you all very much for all this. i have quite a few ideas now and i think i can figure this out. ill be reporting back once i get some results! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 my first forge was poured concrete in an old grill. still have it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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