SReynolds Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 There is old track advertised for sale on e-bay and I had asked the seller if he had any kind of invoice to prove this track was purchased legally. He will cut any length of track you need. He replied that he doesn't need to prove it was purchased as anybody can purchase new or old rail way track. What are the legal complications, if any, by buying track or selling track that would appear to be used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Why would you want it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 Hammer projects. It is to the best of my limited knowledge, that all blacksmiths do have a section of RR track (a foot long or less) It would really suprise me to learn different. I don't have a true anvil of my own........I, ah...have to "borrow" one from the shop....... so to speak. There is a dealer near me, by the way, who sells loads of anvils. The ones that look like a piece of scrap, say 60-70 pounds are 100 to 200 dollars. I'm not in the scrap business. The good used ones; 60 to 100 pounds, that look like something are 300-400 and the new small anvils are at least 450 up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmeineke Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Probably the same complications of receiving any other goods that may or may not be stolen. From what I understand - and this may vary from state to state - If you receive stolen goods, knowingly or unknowingly, you are liable. Doesn't seem fair in the case of an innocent purchase where you are trusting the seller is on the up-and-up, but that's the way it goes. In any case, you either have to assume the seller is telling the truth and go ahead and buy it or just walk away. There have been times that I've been suspicious and have flat-out asked seller (politely) if something was stolen. Morally I think that's about all you can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 There is enough track available for purchase that it won't end up questioned unless you are involved in other questionable activity. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 The guy is absolutely right, Anyone can buy railroad track.... The question is can he show that he bought it/owns it? Hey anyone can buy a car too but you still have to prove you own it to sell it... He might think that's silly and could be on the up and up... And I think its very unlikly that anyone could prove that a couple feet of rail from anyplace was stolen... Different if you have a whole yard full of rail, but how would a 24" chunk be traceable? Anyway I would just use your best judgment... If the guy seems like a good honest guy I wouldn't worry about it much... If he seems like a sketched out meth head I would walk slowly away backwards with my hand on my wallet.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Wow and OH is just about the low point in price for blacksmithing stuff! I blame the internet for doing away with localized prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I guess I got lucky way back in 1971 when i got my first anvil. Now I have three and I have never owened an inch of railroad track. It is , in my opinion only, only good for trains to run on. As something to similulate an anvil it seems to be pretty narrow, not really flat on the "face", does not come with a horn or hardy, A poor substitute, A piece of forklift tine would be better. My opinion only. . . LOCK and LOAD! Shoot!!! I can see it coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 if it does turn out to be stolen, how will they prove it? In this case, a charge of receiving stolen property is hard to prove. If they do prove its stolen and you bought it in good faith, you will lose that track and the money you paid for it is now gone(as stolen property gets returned to the legal owner if recovered), but not likely get any fines or jail time if you have a receipt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 It's generally not true that merely possessing stolen property makes you criminally liable. You need to have guilty knowledge -- that is, you have to know or have reason to know that it's stolen. "Reason to know" does not include the generalized knowledge that sometimes people steal things and try to sell them. That would apply to just about everything on eBay. However, reason to know can be inferred from the facts surrounding your possession of the item. So it there's something suspicious in a given case that someone could point to and say, "see, any reasonable person would've seen that and suspected these were stolen goods," then by all means give it a pass. The guy says he purchased it. Assuming I had no specific reason to think otherwise, personally, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. The fact that he doesn't want to show you an invoice doesn't prove anything; maybe he doesn't want to reveal his source so you can go into competition with him, or discover just how big a profit he's making on this deal. In the unlikely event that it did turn out to be stolen, the police might come seize your piece of track. That's not a great loss. I have occasionally decided not to buy a tool on eBay because the price was so low that I was deeply suspicious about how the buyer came to possess it, or whether it was an illegal knockoff of some sort. But the guy on eBay that I'm looking at wants about $1.50/pound for used track. That doesn't seem suspicious to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 By the way, cars are a special case. There are a whole host of laws that are specific to automobiles. (The Virginia Motor Vehicle Code is hundreds of pages long.) They're big-ticket items that are very commonly owned -- and stolen -- so many states have passed specific laws regulating the the buying and selling of cars. In Virginia it's a crime to sell a vehicle without a certificate of title. That has essentially nothing to do with a piece of railroad track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K. Bryan Morgan Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 While it is important, for me, to understand that the tools I use are free and clear of impediment, I have to respectfully disagree with those who would say it would be an inadequate anvil. I started with a railroad rail anvil and was happy to have it. It had more than adequate hardness and for a hobbyist like me works very very well. I have since purchased a "shop anvil" 242 lb new from a modern maker. As a hobbyist and not a production smith if I had not been able to purchase an anvil my railroad anvil would have been fine. Alexander Weygers, in The Complete Modern Blacksmith, explains in great detail, how to make a railroad anvil that is very durable and has hardy and pritchel holes. On page 178 paragraph 3 concludes his narrative with this. "They (the anvils) have proved to be as good as any larger commercial anvils I have ever had. I bolt them firmly on a heavy wood stump and ignore their light caliber, using them as if they were 100-pounders." For a production smith I can understand that this light an anvil may not be ideal. For the hobbyist however, or a beginner, I found for myself it was more than adequate. I do agree though that a piece of forklift tine can and does make a fine anvil for a hobbiest as well. As does a railroad car knuckle, big piece of mild steel or a large number of other items that can be utilized as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I have used, in the beginning of the craft of smithing for me, a flywheel out of a '53 GMC 1/2 ton pick up truck. About half of the teeth for starting the truck were broken off but I was using it for an anvil not to start the truck. Later on I set it on the floor of my shop to upset large sections of steel on, it was pretty handy for that. I have bought several sections of track from Davis Salvage here in Phoenix, AZ at very reasonable prices and I have some sections of track that served as bollards to protect a gas meter and I got them when they were replaced with concrete filled pipe. I was told they were part of the old Phoenix trolley system that was ripped up after WWII, don't know for sure. If someone local would like a section PM me and we talk up a deal, sound good to anyone? :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksnagel Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I have two pieces of track, one 3ft and one 1ft. I truly believe neither was stolen. The larger served as my first anvil. The second was given to me by a friend and is saw cut. I have since aquired an anvil but still find use for the track. You would probably be ok with a piece of track as a starter. Then when you can, buy an anvil. Just in case you haven't heard this before, I will paraphrase what Thomas Powers told me (and others): "Tell everyone you know that you are looking for an anvil. Tell people that you don't know, that you are on the lookout for an anvil. They may not know where one can be had but they may remember you when they hear about one from someone else." I followed his advice and an anvil was practicaly dropped in my lap. I got a post vice the same way. Can't hurt. Mark <º)))>< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I have a good anvil and find my small piece of track handy at times for making bends and odd shapes. My piece is about 6 inches and has a thermite weld in it, which gives it a bit of a bulge. Being flame cut on the ends adds to the possibilities in this case. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Clad Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Mark, I agree with you. Once I put the word out for an item it usually takes no time. After awhile, people contact me out of the blue because they know I may be game to buy.....Also, part of the fun for me is the search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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