keaton Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I was just wondering if it were possible for somebody to maybe find a chunk of metal big enough or weld enough pieces of tool steel together to form an anvil? Is this even possible for the average person? How could it be done if you could and how might you form it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason @ MacTalis Ironworks Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 For a team of accomplished smiths, sure, it isn't that huge of an undertaking, for the average guy, not really likely for sucess... I am assuming you are referring to building one "traditionally". Alot of guys make do with forklift forks or railroad rails... both work fairly well... heck a largish block of mild steel would probably be on par with most medieval anvils. I am actually planning on building a traditional style London pattern anvil some day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Do a search of this site. Lots of people have made anvils. Like anything, some are better than others, but all are impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 If you find a big chunk of metal you *have* an anvil---just not a london pattern one. However the london pattern one's design dates to around 1820 and "big blocks of metal" anvils date around 2000 years *more* so being worried about having a london pattern anvil seems a bit odd to me. The london pattern is quite handy; it's sort of the "swiss army knife" of anvils with all sorts of bells and whistles for doing different stuff. But it is not necessarily the best design for many tasks, often with a limited sweet spot compared to other designs. While blacksmiths tend to suffer terribly from anvil envy; it's a self imposed disorder---lately I have done more work on a 25# travel anvil designed after a roman example---a cube of steel with a spike---than I have with my 515# Fisher shop anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajajoaquin Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 ...lately I have done more work on a 25# travel anvil designed after a roman example---a cube of steel with a spike---than I have with my 515# Fisher shop anvil. This gets back to some stuff we were discussing on the "monster anvils" thread, about mass, and mass under the hammer. I wonder what the mass is of the column of steel/iron under the face through the waist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 With some help from some other smiths I forged one a week ago at the Ontario Artist Blacksmith Association meeting held at my shop. It is a 42lb chunk of 4340 and is a traditional stake anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 There is more information here. stake anvil thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregDP Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I want to save you some time and effort and say no. The average person isn't a able to with easily acquired tools or more time and energy that it would cost to work most day jobs compared to the cost on an anvil. A lot of folks I've found that have made good anvils do so for only a few reasons.Because they can and want to prove it to themselves or others (this is admirable to me an exchange of knowledge. I'd love to see quality anvils being manufactured made in America affordable to us in the states again but steel is a commodity and the demand simply isn't around. Yet.) because they can't find an anvil period. Freight is expensive and online is very competitive but depending on your location a good anvil is worth the time and money. While anything can be an anvil. It takes a bit of luck and a lot of research to properly temper a hunk of tool steal if you are familiar with the theory already and know what makes a good anvil you can do it. If you just want to give it a try I recommend anything big and heavy. Concrete isn't a good idea, but the scrap yard can yield good results if they sell to the public. I got a big ol' piece of of plate steel for cheap that was roughly torch cut. A little grinding and cold forging (mild steals mushroom and absorb the impact instead of returning it) I've found a sledge works great on a rounded edge to give it a bit of hardness just to somewhat resist dings. Long story short it was a lot of hassle but got the job done till recently. Just don't consider this an anvil, but maybe you'll find it helpful: If you're really excited and just have to start but can afford or find an anvil; find a blacksmith group near you. That's probably the best place to find an anvil or get any help at all to boot! Enjoy learning! (edit - Railroad track is a great starter anvil and was my ideal choice. I never stopped looking. I've never been able to acquire it personally as I hear it's illegal and very difficult to cut without torches, don't bother with anything other than several large abrasive wheels and a power source in the field.. at least that was always my only other option personally) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K. Bryan Morgan Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I have to disagree with RaggyHead. Like Thomas said. "If you find a big chunk of metal you *have* an anvil---just not a london pattern one." At my local supplier, there are several large plate drops outside by the customer loading area. They probably 12x12x3. If I were to put a mortise into a stump and set one on edge. I would have a very fine anvil. With all the mass of the steel and the stump under it, it would work great for small projects. If you feel up to it and feel like investing the time and money it would take to make a London Pattern anvil. It can be done. I've seen how to's somewhere I just for the life of me can't remember where at the moment. Maybe someone will chime in with those links. It may have been on Anvilfire.com. But I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregDP Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Aye, but things like tempsticks are useful for a budding smith trying to harden and temper they're own anvil, when I stated I already knew what they were and how they were used and was still intimidated by the idea of how to create, control and maintain proper heat without guidance. I was more afraid of the time, energy, and money being wasted personally and only wanted an anvil for functionality. Don't let me intimidate you Keaton, it is possible and if you really want to I'm sure you can. But know what to do thoroughly because without someone around to ask while you're doing it and stumped it'll only be a great story. I once was very proud of my plate steel 'anvil'. I made several trips to find it, but since using something with a bit o' spring my arm doesn't let my mouth or fingers make the same mistake anymore! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 An unhardened chunk of mild steel will still be a better anvil than an HF cast iron ASO! I've used the broken knuckle off a RR car coupler ass an anvil with *no* changes to it. It has a flat side and a curved side and is sufficiently hard and massive to make a light duty anvil---but one I was not afraid to use a sledge on as it's cost was $0 and it's *TOUGH*!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajajoaquin Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I don't know that you have to know anything about tool steel, hardening, tempering, or anything else to make an anvil. Sure, if you want to make an anvil out of tool steel, that would be helpful.... But as Mr. Morgan said Thomas said, an anvil is a large mass you're using to beat against with your hammer. You will get better performance with a better anvil, but you will get better performance out of a crappy anvil than you will out of none at all. It comes down to a cost-benefit analysis for each person. Cost is time, money, effort, frustration. Benefit is use, time, satisfaction. I solved the issue by buying some blocks of steel to make an anvil with, but kept looking for a commercially-made anvil at the same time. About the time I had all my parts together to build the anvil, I found a nice Hill wrought anvil locally for about $200. Now I have 270lb of steel blocks and a nice anvil. I don't know exactly what I'm going to do with those blocks, but I'm glad I have them. (I'm leaning towards a Brazeal-style blade anvil with fullers and a butcher machined-in.) So, Keaton, my advice to you is to think about what you want. If you just want to get started smithing cheap and fast, track down a miscellaneous drop of mystery steel. Put it on a stand and start hammering. If you want a London-pattern anvil (or German, or Hofi, or whatever), then you're better off saving your nickles and doing the search for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules T Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Brian, is this what you were talking about?Anvil Tutorial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K. Bryan Morgan Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Brian, is this what you were talking about?Anvil Tutorial Yes thats one of the links I was thinking of. There is another that has step by step pictures and though I have been looking for it I'll be darned if I can find it. Thank you for looking that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I was just wondering if it were possible for somebody to maybe find a chunk of metal big enough or weld enough pieces of tool steel together to form an anvil? Is this even possible for the average person? How could it be done if you could and how might you form it? Have you seen this thread? Brian Brazeal has inspired many of "Big Chunk of Metal Anvils" like this anvil I built about 2 years ago. The top of the surface is welded with S-7 Tool steel. It's actually a really fun anvil and it's great for practicing on. Also a great anvil to let beginners mess around on as any dent they do put in it I can just weld S-7 back into the dent and grind smooth again. Is it cheap? well it only cost the steel and the argon. I think I had about $300.00 into it or less. It's a fair bit of labor though as there was a lot of welding that hard tool steel in to a bed and then grinding it all down. The drilling of the two (2) FIVE inch bolt holes was fairly arduous but ultimately very rewarding once I got through. It's essentially one giant 377lb piece of anvil. Very Solid and very little ring thanks to sand in all the legs of the stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 PS. I liked the Brazeal style anvil so much that this summer I intend to make another anvil (already purchased all the steel and parts for it) of similar design that will have 5-6 of the most common contours cut into the face and then I will weld over each of those faces with S-7 and then sand those faces to perfection. I'm lucky that my new neighbor is a professional metal polisher so I can always have him go to town sanding the face of my anvils and his polishing skills are insane. He makes steel look like flawless chrome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpotter Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I am making a couple I have done it a few times just for fun but it is not worth it from the money standpoint. I have a video of me cutting the top of a piece of steel on my shaper, I had the chunk burned out and I am going to just weld a tool steel plate to the top I have done the top with hardface rod before and it worked well but it cost more than a production anvil. the one I am making is not for heavy blacksmithing so I dont want to hear about how it aint gonna work, I know it wont rebound I am making it for small jewelry type work and a way to hold my stakes plus it will look real cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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