canada goose Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Someone who runs a yoga clinic wants a gong or bell in the shape of the aum (ohm) symbol . I wonder what the considerations are in making gongs and bells especially something of complicated shape . It would be nice if it sounded pleasant rather than just a pile of junk falling down stairs! Any wisdom and advice would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjohnbarleycorn Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 acoustics can be tricky I have had good luck with used nitrogen and oxygen cylinders, you can shape them if you want. There are some other treads around here about it, not an easy project, as if you get any size it can be tricky hardening and tempering. If you get a small tank and cut it up you can get an idea, it would be a starting point. Getting the tanks to the proper length so that they set up a resonant frequency would be the way to get an extended oohm sound. Of course if you cut up a cylinder that had an explosive gas in it you must take precautions, regular propane tanks are too thin, I think. its really cool when it works out though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knots Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Bar Gong or Pan Gong ? I assume bar gong. I wouldn't think that a bar gong would be a problem. Pan gong in that shape sounds pretty iffey unless it is really big. What size? Years ago Scientific American had an article on bells and gongs. I will look to see if I still have a copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinityblacksmithing Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I would think that with the shape of the ohm symbol it would create a pleasant sound as long as it is created out of thick enough material. Mild steel would be fine to use instead of having to heat treat tool steel. I would try and use 1/2" or larger material. When shaped heat the entire piece to orange and quickly quench to give a nice sharp tone. I would think that depending on where you tapped it it would create different notes. Good luck on your project. Aaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Depending on what the symbol looks like, and from what I have seen descriptions of, I think I would be tempted to go with a round gong and repoussee the symbol on its face Good luck with the project, it will be interesting to see pictures of the finished item Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Try to talk them into a "japanese temple bell" made from a gas cylinder and put the forging effort into the support structure for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 You talking about this ohm? The Absolute AUM (OM, OHM) within Hinduism symbolizes the unborn non-dualistic, omnispresent, impersonal Absolute, which incoperates all forms of life; which is life. The sacred AUM symbol above represents both the unmanifest, nirguna, and manifest, saguna, aspects of the Absolute. By sound and form, AUM symbolizes the infinite Brahman* (ultimate reality). · A stands for Creation · U stands for Preservation · M stands for Destruction or dissolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbcreative Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Depending on what the symbol looks like, and from what I have seen descriptions of, I think I would be tempted to go with a round gong and repoussee the symbol on its face Good luck with the project, it will be interesting to see pictures of the finished item I think something like repoussee or similar would give you the best sound. I'd imagine they want a low deep tone and without the mass, you won't achieve that. The symbol is this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canada goose Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 So far I get the feeling that either a gas cylinder or a large flat plate with the symbol on it would be most within my practicality.A large plasma cut mobile would be cool but the sound? I dont know how I would heat and cool pieces as large as they need to be(2 foot) or so). To reppousse a large disc would be interesting but I cant imagine doing material thicker than say 1/8 or 3/16. Would that sound ok? I hope Dan E can find that Sci.Am. reference . A large plasma cut symbol with the cylinder hanging to be struck is a good idea if the customer approved.I better research reppousse ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 So far I get the feeling that either a gas cylinder or a large flat plate with the symbol on it would be most within my practicality.A large plasma cut mobile would be cool but the sound? I dont know how I would heat and cool pieces as large as they need to be(2 foot) or so). To reppousse a large disc would be interesting but I cant imagine doing material thicker than say 1/8 or 3/16. Would that sound ok? I hope Dan E can find that Sci.Am. reference . A large plasma cut symbol with the cylinder hanging to be struck is a good idea if the customer approved.I better research reppousse ! Alternatively you could cut out the shapes from a different material and braze or silver solder or rivet them on to the gong Or cut through and leave them open, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 so many good ideas. I would go with either the cylinder and a cut out or applique.... I have seen some that had long slits up the sides to add resonation, the longer and larger they are the lower the tone, but I think the freer the movement will result in longer reverberation. or a round gong with reposse.... I would suggest a high copper alloy, most instrument, or bell brasses are higher copper alloys. ... I have tried something like this, I found that hardening/ tempering only changed steel items tone.... I would really like to see what this turns into Good luck Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knots Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 We have an old Indo/English dinner gong that I have re-examined. It is a bronze pan gong. The pan bottom has a hammered texture. I theorize that the rim was hot forged onto a circular form because the edges were upset so that there are no folds evident . The pan bottom has a hammered texture. With close examination I can see that the the pan bottom is very slightly domed. I suspect that after the rim was forged that the pan bottom was plandished cold to place it in compression against the outer rim. Think of other timpani, and stringed instruments. The sounding/resonating element is always in compression. I have made triangular gongs, and bar gongs from steel with good results. Why would a steel pan gong, with a forged rim, and sounding pan placed in compression by plandinshing not work ? The process that I would suggest would be to: Hot forge the rim, over a circular form, using a torch as the hear source. After the pan is formed plandish the pan bottom cold to introduce compression into the pan bottom and restrained by the pan rim . Although this is a thought experiment it seems to have promise. If indeed the plandish induced stress in the pan bottom is the magic ingredient then it would logically follow that perforations of the pan would likely alter and perhaps spoil the sound. Unfortunately I am currently moving my shop and can't try this out. Maybe someone else will beat me to it. If so please report the result and satisfy my curiosity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knots Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I posted earlier in this thread that I would attempt to find an old Scientific American article on Gongs. Sadly I could not locate the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 You can cast it in bronze and get good tone, forge it in steel and get good tone, even cast it in iron and get good tone. There are many ways to get a gong with good tone but in forging bells and gongs I have found that mild steel will not give a very good tone at all, kind of flat sounding. Look for a steel that will take a temper. <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canada goose Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Well my potential customer has changed her mind.Interesting discussion though and I thank everyone for it. Im realizing that Its possible to do a gong but its a lot of work . And they are for sale very reasonably priced from gong makers.Caribbean steel drums are made of the ends of old oil drums hammered to stretch the steel into a work hardened dome.Dont know if oil drums are anything but mild steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wshelley Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I can't find the article online but here is the info: Shen, Sinyan (1987), Acoustics of Ancient Chinese Bells, Scientific American, 256, 94. Maybe someone will have the issue and can scan the article. Sounds interesting (pardon the pun). Ward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knots Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 The link below fearure the bells that I referenced as being featured in the Scientific American Magazine. Follow the links provoded for other sources. These are really more than simple bells. Each apparently has multiple tones . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bianzhong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Ric Moorhouse gifted me with this symbol quite a few years ago. It is of 5/16" square and is 5" tall. I suspended it with a string and got a little tone, but not at all loud. It has four tack welds on the back that have been smoothed. Nice wall hanger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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