How will this affect you?

[GunsmithnMaker]

Here is a story that everyone here that considers themselves a blacksmith or wannabe should read.
It may be the end of an era if you don't make your opinion known. Fox News story on Coal Permits

I had originally considered using a gas forge for my blacksmithing, but as I have had to collect pieces here and there to build my own gas forge I found it much less expensive to use coal. I will probably build my gas forge eventually, but I know some here would rather stick to coal. What effect will the necessary rise in coal prices have on your costs and what you'll need to charge if this does go industry wide?

[Timothy Miller]

Very heavy on politics light on facts. They didn't say why it was revoked. They didn't say what kind of coal it was. I dbout this will have an effect on your ability to buy a few sacks of coal now and then. It might make coal that was 250 a ton be 265 a ton not a big trade off in my opinion for cleaner air and water. Id rather see a beautiful moutan than a big gapeing hole in the earth honestly.

[hillbillyblacksmith]

I agree with southshoresmith I live in southern WV and there is a lot of mountain top removal here kinda makes me sad really, a mine i don't mind much but destroying a whole mountain is just wrong. About 3/4 of the population in this area still use coal heat, I do and I wouldn't want any other kind plus i get great coal by the ton so have plenty for forging lol the last coal i bought was $172 for 4400lb it burns great leaves little ash and hits welding temp easily.

[GunsmithnMaker]

I suppose some people may be biased against the source, but here are three factual statements from the article.

Statement of the EPA:
""The agency took this action because this proposed mine would use destructive and unsustainable mining practices that jeopardize the health of Appalachian communities and clean water on which they depend,” read the agency’s statement."

Statement of author Doug McKelway:
"The environmental concerns over surface mining were well-known when the EPA first issued the permit in 2007. Since that time, Arch Coal has made millions of dollars in infrastructure investments in the mine, perhaps the largest ever in the region --investments which are now threatened by the EPA permit revocation."

"It's just the arrogance of the EPA,” said Bill Raney of the West Virginia Coal Association. “The people in Logan County want the permit. It's important to the company. It's critically important to Logan County."

If what Southshoresmith says about the content being light on facts is true, then I suppose that there is no environmental impact (EPA) and that no one will lose their jobs in this or any other coal mining operation. (Bill Raney)

Please read the full article for yourself.

If you don't like that article maybe you will like this one that mentions the oppositions view point....ah...well, you decide. McClatchy.com article

[ThomasPowers]

Actually I was more concerned about coal mines whose entire output was contacted to companies outside the USA during the Republican "offshore and increase profits" years. However I found out that the one I was most concerned with had very sloppy workers who would often be so distracted by a 6-pack during lunchtime that a pickup load of coal might accidentally get dropped in your vehicle...

[Willis]

WOnt effect me at all. I use charcoal and make my own.

[hillbillyblacksmith]

Here in WV since they started mountain top removal on a large scale as they are now there has been 3 times as many floods as normal as well as they are larger floods due to blocked streams backing up many of my friends lost their homes because of this but in reality it wouldn't be as bad if it was Americans doings all of this here. But the big "strip mines" as well call them here, has been bought out by Russians which as done more damage in two year then the American company did since they started the doing it i think back in 99 Anyway I'm just a hillbilly who loves his mountains and the people of this state more then money. The truth is they can get the same coal by underground mining that would also employ at lest twice more people cause it takes more to run underground then striping the mountain. all and all its just another way for big business to save money at the cost of the little man. I'm not trying to start a debate or a I'm right your wrong I was just say how i feel personally on the matter just giving my opinion on the matter. seeing as that I live right in the middle of the area this most concerns.

p.s. every male member of my family has been a coal miner since they started mining coal in WV i even spent sometime in there myself. anyway that's all I'm gonna say on this subject politics and religion you should never talk about with strangers no ones gonna agree 100% And for you who don't know what is looks like google map where i live then look for a large gray and brown spot that's a strip mine bigger then any town or city around.

[Marksnagel]

I'll keep on using coal until it is no longer available or illegal. Then I'll find another source. Sad to see any resource gathering activity that destroys the land without any type of reclamation.

Coal is what I prefer, probably because that is what I was weaned on, but I have learned in my life to adapt. We'll see.

Mark<><

[arftist]

To the O.P., you are new here, but in general we try to keep the political aspects of a given situation to a minimum. What drew my attention to your post was the president's name. Obviously since it is a proposed mine, it's cancelled permit will have no effect whatsoever on the supply.

If no more coal was mined in the whole country as of tomorow, most of us wouldn't miss a beat. Gassers would keep cooking with gas and solid fuel people would start making charcoal, a very simple process I might add, and there is scrap wood most everywhere.

[David Einhorn]

If they outlaw coal then we will be forced to switch to charcoal and/or wood at museums and living history events.

[ThomasPowers]

Well at the LH events I go to Charcoal would have been the correct fuel! I'm dragging my Y1K set up to a weeklong camping event next month.

[Glenn]

For more information on the Environmental Protection Agency to revoke the long-standing permits for a mammoth coal mine in West Virginia, go to the newspaper(s) and do a search for that material. Remember that

The two state wide newspapers are The Charleston Daily Mail and The Charleston Gazette
Local papers to the area of the permit are The Logan Banner and Beckley Register Herald and Bluefield Telegraph

A google search will turn up additional sources for information.

[David Einhorn]

For more information on the Environmental Protection Agency to revoke the long-standing permits for a mammoth coal mine in West Virginia,.....

Sounds scary.

[Timothy Miller]

I doubt they will ever ban the use of coal for small users that burn less than a few tons a year. We are not the problem. If it were I bet there are enough of us blacksmiths to lobby for an exemption for our craft. I know they tried to pass a law to require scrubbers for all commercial coal users in NY there was an exemption for blacksmiths. I don't think It passed though.

[Glenn]

Some interesting facts about WV Coal

HISTORY & GEOLOGY

• Coal was first discovered in what is now West Virginia in 1742 by John Peter Salley in what is now Boone County.
• Coal occurs in 53 of West Virginia's 55 Counties only Jefferson and Hardy in the eastern panhandle have no coal.
• Forty-three counties have reserves of minable (economic) coal.
• There are 117 named coal seams in West Virginia.
• Sixty-five seams are considered minable.
• In 2009 coal was produced from 51 different coal seams in West Virginia.
• The Pittsburgh coal seam accounted for nearly 31 million tons of production in 2009.
• West Virginia has 4% of all coal reserves.

PRODUCTION & EMPLOYMENT

• Annually, 28 West Virginia counties produce coal
• McDowell County has produced more coal than any other county in West Virginia.
• The West Virginia Coal Industry provides about 30,000 direct jobs in WV, including miners, mine contractors, coal preparation plant employees and mine supply companies.
• Underground mines in 2009 produced 87 million tons with 33 million tons from longwall mining.
• Surface mines account for nearly 60 million tons of production each year.
• In 2009 Surface mines produced 56 million tons with over 43 million from Mountain Top mining.
• In 2009 West Virginia mines produced over 144 million tons.
• West Virginia leads the nation in underground coal production.

ELECTRICITY AND COAL

• More than half of the nation's electricity is generated from coal.
• In West Virginia 99% of the generated electricity comes from coal.
• There are currently 14 coal fired electric generating facilities located in West Virginia.
• Coal provides the majority of electric power in 32 states.

[MattBower]

I doubt they will ever ban the use of coal for small users that burn less than a few tons a year. We are not the problem. If it were I bet there are enough of us blacksmiths to lobby for an exemption for our craft. I know they tried to pass a law to require scrubbers for all commercial coal users in NY there was an exemption for blacksmiths. I don't think It passed though.

I doubt "they" will ban the use of coal, even on a massive scale, in my lifetime. This country -- indeed, the modern world -- cannot run without electricity, and right now we have no better (read: economically viable) plan than coal for getting a great deal of it. Most alternative energy forms are going to take decades to become feasible, if they ever do, and right now we show no signs of getting serious about nuclear. If we do, again, it'll take decades to make a serious impact -- and the U.S. is only a small piece of the puzzle. It's an energy hungry world, and it's only getting hungrier. Coal will be with us for a long time.

[hillbillyblacksmith]

• McDowell County has produced more coal than any other county in West Virginia.

The messed part about that is not only is McDowell the leading coal producer its also the poorest county in the state. go figure.

[Timothy Miller]

I doubt "they" will ban the use of coal, even on a massive scale, in my lifetime. This country -- indeed, the modern world -- cannot run without electricity, and right now we have no better (read: economically viable) plan than coal for getting a great deal of it. Most alternative energy forms are going to take decades to become feasible, if they ever do, and right now we show no signs of getting serious about nuclear. If we do, again, it'll take decades to make a serious impact -- and the U.S. is only a small piece of the puzzle. It's an energy hungry world, and it's only getting hungrier. Coal will be with us for a long time.

I agree mostly with what you say. But I do think we will see massive wind farms going up on the continental shelf off of the eastern sea board in the next 15 to 20 years. The cables are already in the works. This and increased use or natural gas will make inroads in to coal consumption. I also feel that we will soon start to see much stricter efficiency requirements on everything. I welcome all of these changes. I use coal because it is the best tool for some jobs but I don't really like it. Its messy and the smoke is full of nasty stuff.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

My local coal fired plant is only running one generator, because natural gas is so cheap currently. When the gas price goes up they bring more coal units on line.

There is a big push by the current administration, and environmental groups to get rid of dirty coal as they call it. I see billboards talking about this locally. Alternative energy sources are needed to get us off foreign oil, but the technology still has a ways to go for some sources. Last I heard, we have enough coal for the next 200 years. Unless China burns it all up.

What really surprised me was how much USA coal is going to China.

[rustyshackleford]

Driving through WVa I get a kick out of the Union billboards. 'Fracking is just as bad as mountaintop removal. 99% dependence on a depleting resource is greedy. Not being in danger of running out is no excuse to be wasteful of a resource that you don't rightfully own (We should be stewards of the planet, and leave it better than we found it.) We should be funneling money into alt. energy R&D (at a personal, not governmental level -social gospel, not social justice).I use coal for the time being and love the way it works. Methane is probably the best way to go for our trade, but it's not widespread. Technologies cannot gain momentum if there is not demand for it. Similarly, if entities were willing to make a personal sacrifice or commitment to alternative energies there would not be (as much) the demand for coal in power plants. More for us!!!


I'm 21 years old and foam at the mouth watching what my parents generation has and continues to condone in many legislative and environmental arenas. I will spend the rest of my life cleaning up messes. There's no easy solution, but that doesn't mean that we should stop trying to find the best one for one second. As blacksmiths we should know this intimately.

[Mainely,Bob]

It`s the same old question.Do we want to do what`s highly profitable or do we want to do what`s right?Right means what is best for the planet our children`s children must live on and ultimately best for us all.
Just look at the pics of those mines taken from the air.Look at the surrounding environment.As they strip that mountain down to get more coal that ugly scar on the land is going to get bigger and bigger as the mountain gets flattened out and the dirt and rubble has to go somewhere.
I worked in the oilfield and saw what that did to local land and water.We`re long overdue to being held accountable for the impact of industry on the planet.The problem is worldwide and needs to be thought of on that scale if we don`t want our great grandchildren to inherit a toxic planet.

I use charcoal that I make myself in my solid fuel forge so this really won`t effect the way I work at all.