Cross peen or straight peen?

[Geoff]

Hello I am looking for collective wisdom and experience.

I am wanting to modify a hammer I use infrequently as it is about 7 pounds, to some some thing more manageable. I was thinking of remaking it into about 2-3 pounds. But I need to decide do I make it into a cross peen or straight peen hammer. So please tell me what you prefer so that I can decide.

At the moment I am tending towards a cross peen as I think I will use it for sreading stuff more than drawing out. But as I am a beginnner I think it is better to ask for advice.

Thanks, Geoff

PS is it spelt peen or pein?

[Larry H]

I would go for the straight peen, you should already have a cross, straights are harder to find. After I made a straight peen it became my second most used hammer

[jimbob]

I think I'd make a diagonal pein as to me there more useful in drawing out

[arftist]

That's like asking, which is better bread or butter. You need both. Think phillips screwdriver and slotted.

Like Smithy1 said, cross peins are easy to find. Make a straight pein

[Timothy Miller]

Your going to remove 3 to 4 lbs of material from a 7 lb hammer? I would strongly suggest you make a hammer not try to make that drastic of a modification on an already made hammer. Save the 7lb hammer for you striker. I guess you if you were determined to do it you could anneal the hammer then cut away the excess material with a band saw or grinder with a cut off wheel. Then then shape the hammer with abrasives to what you want. then reharden and temper. I would not recommend reforging it because you will distort the handle hole unless you do it with a drift in the hole and are very careful. Problems I see with this is this will take hours of work and you will probably have too big of an hole in the hammer because most hammers of this weight use sledge hammer handles. I suppose you could carve your own handle to fit it. You would do your self a service by taking that (time probably over a days work for a beginner) and try to forge your own hammer. You want to forge iron right? Forge iron then, you wont learn much about blacksmithing by cutting and grinding.

[monstermetal]

yep, Id make a straight, just like everyone else says you need both and a cross peen is easy to find..

I have three hammers made by Brent Bailey that are the same style and weight, one cross, one straight and one diagonal ( I cant report much other than that, I just got the straight and cross peens but it seemed like a reasonable thing to do rather than having three diffrent weight and style hammers to do "normal" work)

there are a couple things I do that having a straight peen makes all the difference, I use the diagonal peen as my day to day hammer..

[jeder]

Starting with your sledge hammer is more difficult than starting with raw stock of the correct size. As beginner making a hammer from raw stock, even the correct size, without an experienced smith showing the way would be a very ambitious project. However modifying an existing hammer will give you some good experience and a good useful tool as well. Why not look for a cheap hammer to modify, I would suggest something like Harbor freight 2 1/2 or 3 pound drill hammer to start with. I made my first straight peen hammer from a 3 pound Plumb engineers hammer . I was not a very attractive hammer but if worked really well. I used it for many years until I got my power hammer which made forging large alloy steel a lot easier.

I know a smith who used to forge only with modified Pedinghaus hammers. When he bought a new hammer the first thing that he did was knock the handle out out of the forge the face to a rounder profile and mushroom the cross peen. To harden and retreat the working surfaces he would heat the working surfaces to critical temperature and quench them under a slow stream of hot water directed at the center of the hammer's face. He would withdraw the hammer from the stream before totally cooled down. and let the residual heat equalize. He said the object was to have the center of the face hard and the hammer edges some what softer. The hammer face and edges were then tested with a file. The hammer would be polished and the the colors drawn if needed. Modifying hammers to meet your needs is a common practice.

For my own hammers, after forging I test with a file for hardness. Some I use and soft untreated if they the alloy is tough. Others I quench in oil and run the colors. This depends a lot on the steel being used. The thing that you must be sure of is that the the hammer face edges are not to hard. I am generally very cautious about heat treatment because the danger of flying shards. I learned that lesson while in junior high school when I hit an anvil with a hammer , the resulting shard ended up in my left index finger. The school coach happily carved it out all the while lecturing me about the stupidity of my actions.

My main hammer is a straight peen. Most of my drawing I do with my straight peen over the base of the horn. I t works well for me. Happy forging

[monstermetal]

PS is it spelt peen or pein?

Yes.... ;)

[Glenn]

The function of the hammer is the same, whether straight peen, cross peen, or diagonal peen. The only difference is the orientation of the handle to the work.

There IS a difference in the slash or diagonal peen hammers. A left diagonal peen when looking at the hammer face, peen down, handle toward you, the peen looks like this /. If you hold the left handed diagonal peen in your left hand (as it should be) you can see under the hammer and see the peen strike the metal. If you use a right handed diagonal peen hammer with the left hand, the \ orientation of the peen blocks your vision. Reverse all directions for being right handed. .

Hofi was the one that pointed out to me that only a cross peen is necessary as you can move the orientation of the metal and the hammer to achieve the same effect as a straight peen. I have seen custom hammers with straight peen on one end and cross peen on the other, maybe the best design for a non-diagonal peen hammer. I know of one smith that made a hammer head with 4 heads, or quad peen, that is a face, straight peen, cross peen and diagonal peen all on one hammer head.

The function of the hammer is the same, whether straight peen, cross peen, or diagonal peen. The peen is a fuller. The only difference is the orientation of the handle to the work.

[monstermetal]

The only difference is the orientation of the handle to the work.

But that's everything Glenn. When I forge Tomahawks I spread the blade (out of 1" stock) with a mandrel in the eye that's the handle so the stock is across the face of the anvil. Easy with a straight peen, very difficult with a cross peen

[maddog]

You can rough cut the pein with a torch and grind it. Someone did this recently. It's going to be a lot of grinding and you will end up with a 6#hammer which is kind of heavy but if you think it's a fun project why not? You learn a lot from pursuing your own ideas whether they succeed or not. It seems easier to find a 3# double faced hammer and forge one face into a pein.(they are often called "sledge" hammers these days even though they are light and handled for one handed use). An easy way to start would be to take a heavy ball pein and forge the pein into a vertical pein. This is a much easier forging. You wont get a 3# straight pein but it makes a useful tool and you can explore the capabilities of a straight pein hammer.

Truth is, most smiths don't have a lot of use for a straight pein and if you are going to modify hammer heads there are probably more useful top tool that you could make, like punches, fullers etc.

Monster said "...there are a couple things I do that having a straight peen makes all the difference...". Could you give a bit more detail? Thanks

[Ian]

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that "Pein" is the English spelling and that "Peen" is the American spelling. That said I've also seen "Pane" in some of the older texts Either spelling will do, we all know what you mean. :D

[Glenn]

The peen is a fuller. The only difference is the orientation of the handle to the work.

Monster, my point exactly. It is not the peen but the handle orientation that should be the deciding factor.

You can make-do by turning the hammer or the stock or both, but if you are doing a lot of work in one set up, you need to have the tools and tooling to make things easy for you. If that means buying or making a special hammer, then the effort saved justifies the new hammer. (Just think of how many pairs of tongs you have)

Geoff, I need to decide do I make it into a cross peen or straight peen hammer.

Look at the work you do and the orientation of the hammer handle. This should guide your decision.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

I've often thought of making an "indexable pein" hammer. Adjustable to 8 positions (or more). Just for fun.

[pkrankow]

Why do you need more than 4? cross, straight, RH diagonal, LH diagonal?

If I had an extra long handled hammer, I would make it a cross peen, with about a 1 inch peen, by sawing so I had a long handled cross peen, as heavy as I could through stock removal. The wedges removed would be a few ounces each, and could be reforged.

Phil

[monstermetal]

If you make One with 8 indexable locations Grant someone will come along and ask why you didn't make it with 12

[Glenn]

An indexable pein hammer is usually called a blacksmith with a striker. (grin)

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Why do you need more than 4? cross, straight, RH diagonal, LH diagonal?

Well, ya kinda automatically end up with double the number you want. If it's adjustable by 180 degrees, then that's two positions, but they're both a cross pein!

[arftist]

Truth is, most smiths don't have a lot of use for a straight pein and if you are going to modify hammer heads there are probably more useful top tool that you could make, like punches, fullers etc.

How do figure? Did you take a poll of "most smiths"? I use either as often as the other and need them both equaly.

[Timothy Miller]

Well, ya kinda automatically end up with double the number you want. If it's adjustable by 180 degrees, then that's two positions, but they're both a cross pein!

Then people would want them with interchangeable peens and racing stripes. So they can forge RR spikes on their brand new 450 LB anvil.

[maddog]

How do figure? Did you take a poll of "most smiths"? I use either as often as the other and need them both equaly.

How do I figure that? Over the last 15 years. I've watched a fair number of smiths live and video, in the US and around the world and have not seen one used. I've heard smiths say they've never felt the need for one. I rarely spot them in photos of shop tool racks. They are fairly rare new and used except as sledges 8# and more. I've never seen or heard a description of a forging project that called for one. In light of this it seemed a reasonable assumption that over 50% of the smiths don't use them much. I am not claiming they are useless in a smiths shop. Nor was I saying that no one finds them useful. The main thrust of my comment is that if you are a beginner and just starting to make your tools, there are other tools that should come first.

However, I am always willing to learn and I did ask Monster above what he uses his for.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Then people would want them with interchangeable peens and racing stripes. So they can forge RR spikes on their brand new 450 LB anvil.

Shhh!!;)

[Timothy Miller]

How do I figure that? Over the last 15 years. I've watched a fair number of smiths live and video, in the US and around the world and have not seen one used. I've heard smiths say they've never felt the need for one. I rarely spot them in photos of shop tool racks. They are fairly rare new and used except as sledges 8# and more. I've never seen or heard a description of a forging project that called for one. In light of this it seemed a reasonable assumption that over 50% of the smiths don't use them much. I am not claiming they are useless in a smiths shop. Nor was I saying that no one finds them useful. The main thrust of my comment is that if you are a beginner and just starting to make your tools, there are other tools that should come first.

However, I am always willing to learn and I did ask Monster above what he uses his for.

I have been forging for 18 years 14 of those professionally. I have only really think of one time I needed a strait peen. It was for spreading the heads of a decorative nails I had to make hundreds of it was more comfortable to use the strait peen. I think my instinct is more to move the stock to where I can hit it with a cross peen than reach for a strait peen hammer. I have never used a diagonal peen. I might if I had one. I more use different shaped peens in my work. I have always thought of these other hammers as optional verging on gimmicky. I know strait peens on sledges have real solid uses in forging with a striker. Such as working off the edge of the anvil to do bending and spreading because it seems like its eraser for a striker to see the effects of a strait peen sledge. But thats just my opinion some may snuggle up with their strait peen hammers at night and pet them. But if it works for you go for it.

[Larry H]

Well,... I was snuggled up one cold night with my straight peen, drifting off into that quiet place,... thinking about what we accomplished that day,.... it was glorious...... all that hot metal,... sweat,... flying slag,....the roar of the bellows,..... Wha?.....who?...OH yeah,.....sorry,..... I musta dozed off

[rthibeau]

You should learn to make your own hammers...that way you can have any kind of pein you want and don't worry about the poverty of other smiths who can't have more than a few hammers. If you were near me, I could fix you up real quick.