Geoff Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 Thank you all for the helpful comments. I'll digest this for a while and let you know what I do and how it goes. Geoff PS This is a great place to bounce ignorance off people who have a huge amount of experience and learn a lot. Not being near any experienced smiths, this forum has been incredibly valuable for my hobby. Thank you all once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 You could skin a cat with a shovel. Doesn't mean it's the fastest, best or easiest way. When I forge I hold the stock with my left hand, if it is long enough. If I want to draw out a taper with a cross pein, I'd have to hold my left hand directly under my right hand. Ineffective and clumsy. With a straight pein the stock and hammer are at right angles to each other. I really could not work without a straight pein, without learning a whole new method. If I could only have one hammer it would be a staight pein, since I do more drawing than spreading. A cross pein and a diagonal pein would be fine too, but just a cross pein, no thanks. What I object to is a blanket statement, "most smiths" Sorry, but I don't think that is a true statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 What I object to is a blanket statement, "most smiths" Sorry, but I don't think that is a true statement. A blanket statement would cover all smiths or every smith. "Most" includes more then 50% which means that even 49% might be excepted. That's a fairly modest claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Shhh!! I hadn't thought about racing stripes, but I did put engine turning on one of my cross pein's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I use a straight pein hammer alot, but my pein has a 3" radius instead of a 3/8" to 3/4" radius. Lyle, LDW, and I just made a straight and cross pein hammer with 3" radiuses for a knife maker a few weeks ago, and he loves it. I do use a rounding hammer mostly because it has more surfaces to choose from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Tomato,tamada.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I use a straight pein hammer alot, but my pein has a 3" radius instead of a 3/8" to 3/4" radius. Lyle, LDW, and I just made a straight and cross pein hammer with 3" radiuses for a knife maker a few weeks ago, and he loves it. I do use a rounding hammer mostly because it has more surfaces to choose from. what size billet do you start with for that hammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 It`s been said many times before,"Tools don`t make the blacksmith,the blacksmith makes the tools". All the opinions,conjecture and small things we bat around here shouldn`t keep anyone from doing what they are comfortable with and I sincerely hope it never does. Whenever I ask myself a question like this(and I talk to myself a lot :^) I don`t immediately run and ask eveybody else what they do,I first consider what I want to do.If that means grabbing a hunk of clay and working the problem out by actually standing at the anvil and hitting that clay with pieces of roughly shaped wood hot glued together then I consider the time well spent as I always learn something about either my approach to the work,my body or my tools. Once I can beat that clay with something that moves it effectively and is comfortable for my natural stance/ergonomics then I know what I need to make.It really doesn`t matter what it looks like as long as it WORKS. Most of the best tools many of us have in our shops are things that can`t be bought out of catalogs and those that can became part of those pages because they started as the efforts of one guy who was fed up with adapting to his tools so he made the tools fit him instead.Once his friends and neighbors stopped pointing and laughing, tried them and found them superior to what they were using they suddenly weren`t so funny anymore. The best shooters on the planet don`t buy weapons off the shelf and then throw themselves down on the ground in exactly the same position as the person on either side of them.They fit the weapon to their body,natural shooting position and the work at hand.Once they have everything fitted to them(the first step)they line themselves up in the "zone",get to work and let the competition try to keep up. Do you want to be a shooter or just another guy who`s qualified to carry a gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Hey, I am a tool guy, I like tools... I am not saying you NEED a pile of diffrent hammers to get the job done, Im saying I find it much easier to use the appropriate tool for the job, You dont need a anvil either, or a power hammer or even a forge... You can get the job done by digging a hole in the side of a hill and pounding on a rock with another rock... More smiths have done that throughout time than have probably even ever owned a hammer... So since more of them have done it that way, then the rest of us must be silly for wanting anvils and hammers hu? The one thing that I do that a straight peen is really nice is work the cheeks and blade of a tomahawk. If you saw me forge one you would see it would be quite difficult with a cross peen hammer.. I stick a handled mandrel/drift through the eye and hold it with my left hand so the 1" stock the hawk is made from sticks straight away from me ( I rest the stock on my leg on the near side of the anvil so I have more control) and I spread the blade and the cheeks with a straight peen... to do it with a cross peen you would have to hold the mandrel and the hammer 180 deg from each other.... can it be done, sure.... but its sure a lot faster and more fun with a straight peen hammer..... And because I have one I use it... If I didnt, Id figure out a way to do it with a cross peen... I am of the school of "have one of each" There are a lot more talanted smiths than I who dont use a straight peen... But why does that mean I shouldnt? To me thats like saying well so and so only has a 50 lb little giant and he can do anything, why do you need a 500lb Nazel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I just had another thought.... I do the tomahawks that way because I have a straight peen and I tend to work alone... If I had help I could get someone to hold the mandrel and use a cross peen... And If I didn't have either I would probably have to give up the "hold with my leg" bit so I could do the job with a cross peen... since I have that tool I developed methods that utilize it... If I didn't I wouldn't miss it probably because I wouldn't know any better.... But now that I have used it, it seems silly to be without it.... So there is your answer... if you forged in the bush your whole life on a rock and had never seen or used an anvil, you wouldn't think it very important to have one.... But if you have forged all your life on a anvil and went to the bush you wouldn't much like having to work on a rock.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I use a straight peen a lot more than a cross pein myself. A lot of it depends on what you make and how you work it. I try not to assume that everyone else does the same stuff the same way as I do---would scare me that there was so many other insane folks out there! At one of the SWABA meetings a fellow wanted to modify a double jack into a diagonal pane hammer. Just heated it up and used a hydraulic press to squish the end down. Fast and the "squish" gave it a nice rounded shape to it as well. Anytime it looks like I need to modify a piece of stock by more than 50% just to get it to the size I need it---I figure that I need to start with a different piece of stock! (of course this doesn't hold true for those with large power hammers/presses to hand...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 ...if you forged in the bush your whole life on a rock and had never seen or used an anvil, you wouldn't think it very important to have one.... But if you have forged all your life on a anvil and went to the bush you wouldn't much like having to work on a rock.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Well with that hammer you have a infinite number of peen angles. Who knew handles were optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 My favorite hammer is my old 3# cross peen hammer, next my 3# round over hammer and then my 2-1/2# straight peen hammer. The straight peen was very handy for working on those long pieces of rod that needed to be worked on away from the end where it was awkward to contort your wrist to strike the metal with the cross peen perpendicular to the rod. It was also handy to make fan or palm shapes on the end of rods. I didn't use it every day but it certainly wasn't the red headed step child of the hammer rack either. It is a valuable member of any smith's arsenal of hammers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backyard smith Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I have both straight and cross in in a couple of weights would be lost without any of them. I do however use my 3 1/2 pound straight the most. Hoped this helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 Firstly, thank you all for the recommendations and discussion. Here is what I started with. Here is what I ended up with, straight peen. It weighs in at about 3 1/2 pounds I guess. I still need to polish it up some more. The only flap disk that I have is 40 grit, and no matter how light I went at it I could not get a nice smooth polish to it. I do need to rework the handle as well. Tomorrow, life willing, I'll get to play with it. I am very happy with how it turned out. I also have two nice pieces of steel to make two new hammers when I manage to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 You are going to need to reharden the hammer faces if you want to use that hammer because you cut off the hardened faces. Also having a shoulder on the handle under the head will lead to a shorter handle life such as spiting or the head snapping off gently blend in the transition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 You are going to need to reharden the hammer faces if you want to use that hammer because you cut off the hardened faces. Also having a shoulder on the handle under the head will lead to a shorter handle life such as spiting or the head snapping off gently blend in the transition. Well, yes and no. He can get a lot of work from that hammer as is, as long as he strikes while the iron is hot. Agree about the handle though. A gentle transition is much stronger than an abrupt one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Well, yes and no. He can get a lot of work from that hammer as is, as long as he strikes while the iron is hot. Agree about the handle though. A gentle transition is much stronger than an abrupt one. Well you can forge with a rock on a stick but that does not make it a good hammer. In no time the hammer face will full of dings and will transfer those marks to the work resulting in a poor finish on his work. Also if he wants to strike tools with they will destroy the face. He wants to forge iron why do half job when he has come this far. He is going to need to learn to heat treat sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Thanks for the warning about heat treating. I had thought about it but wanted to try the hammer out before I rehandled etc. I also want to make sure that I do end up with something softer than the anvil hammers are easier to redress than anvils. Especially when they cost you nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Thanks for the warning about heat treating. I had thought about it but wanted to try the hammer out before I rehandled etc. I also want to make sure that I do end up with something softer than the anvil hammers are easier to redress than anvils. Especially when they cost you nothing. Use it soft for a while. Just don't strike tools with it. I don't use any of my forging hammers to strike tools. It is a bad habit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Funny one of my favorite forging hammers is dead soft and it seems to have worked well for a decade or so. The face isn't perfectly smooth but it is smooth and I make sure that it's not used to strike cold metal. From use it's achieved almost the same rocker curve as my dressed and hardened swedish cross pein. It's also the hammer i like to start new folks with as they CAN'T! damage an anvil face with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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