firewelding question

[WhiteOwl]

hey, i'm new to this forum but l have looked everywhere for borax flux/ez weld/weld easy powder used for firewelding and cannot find any in England, does anybody know where i can get any?? (the only place l've found any is in america)thanks

[MattBower]

http://www.greenshop.co.uk/home-garden-4/bestsellers-239/borax-household-approx-500g-4867.html?osCsid=3e5fh1lc2hbkr72doubj8962l6

Or try a place called Boots. Google is your friend.

[Rich Hale]

I am in the US so can not give you specifics.The good stuff here is sold in grocery stores under the name of twenty mule team borax. I just googled it in England and the said it is availeable in grocery stores there,,you may wish to google also and check on stores you are familiar with

[John B]

hey, i'm new to this forum but l have looked everywhere for borax flux/ez weld/weld easy powder used for firewelding and cannot find any in England, does anybody know where i can get any?? (the only place l've found any is in america)thanks

Hi White owl Where in the Uk are you? our wwwblacksmithsguild.com may have members near you, or other members of this site may be just around the corner. You are obviously not looking everywhere, but elsewhere, if you are using coke, coal or charcoal you don't need borax or other flux.

See your local chemist and ask,some large supermarkets carry it, EZ weld try your local farrier or farriers supplies search for Swan Forges who supply both farriers and blacksmiths,

Another option would be to go to a welding supplies and purchase some Cast iron welding flux or brazing flux, they are mainly borax based but more expensive.

February 5th and 6th 2010 we will be holding a forge welding course at the Guild's forge at Westpoint, details on the website if you are interested

[double_edge2]

hey, i'm new to this forum but l have looked everywhere for borax flux/ez weld/weld easy powder used for firewelding and cannot find any in England, does anybody know where i can get any?? (the only place l've found any is in america)thanks

im in oz, borax here is about $3.50au in woollies. ya get desperate, you pay post ill send ya a tub.

[ThomasPowers]

Anhydrous Borax is also used in making ceramic glazes. If you can find a ceramics supply company they may have it.

[Sam Thompson]

We don't use it in this country. If you must, Boots sells it. If you Google "borax", the names of several suppliers come up.

[MattBower]

You don't use borax for welding in the UK, Sam? What do you use as flux?

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

You don't use borax for welding in the UK, Sam? What do you use as flux?

Skill and real mild steel!

[Sam Thompson]

We don't use flux at all, it doesn't seem to make much difference and it splashes all over the place. Is the quality of MS that poor in the US?

[MattBower]

We don't use flux at all, it doesn't seem to make much difference and it splashes all over the place. Is the quality of MS that poor in the US?

Grant, Sam, tell me more. I know it was common to weld wrought iron without flux. I've heard that it can be done with mild steel, but that you gotta get it hot enough to melt the oxide -- which is darned hot. What's the quality of steel issue? And do you weld high carbon steel without flux as well?

[John B]

Grant, Sam, tell me more. I know it was common to weld wrought iron without flux. I've heard that it can be done with mild steel, but that you gotta get it hot enough to melt the oxide -- which is darned hot. What's the quality of steel issue? And do you weld high carbon steel without flux as well?

To weld you have to get it hot enough to melt the steel and transfer it be it MIG TIG or MMA, well its the same in the forge, you just have to catch it at the critical time, then place the parts together and amalgamate them by forging,

The technique is slightly different on mild steel as opposed to the wrought iron mainly scarf prep and initial approach to the weld, but welding is easily achievable without the use of flux in a coke or coal forge.

For those interested, there will be a forgewelding course at Westpoint on February 5th and 6th 2011

[forgemaster]

We always used to use sand. Worked Ok for us. Borax Pfff!

[MattBower]

Just for the record, I have done some forge welding. (I just happen to use liberal amounts of flux, and I'm interested to hear from folks who don't.) But when I do it, it's a solid state process -- unlike MIG, TIG, SMAW, etc. I try hard not to melt steel when I forge weld, because that usually results in me saying a lot of bad words, then cutting away some material and starting over.

Still curious about how steel quality affects the process.

[Frosty]

Just for the record, I have done some forge welding. (I just happen to use liberal amounts of flux, and I'm interested to hear from folks who don't.) But when I do it, it's a solid state process -- unlike MIG, TIG, SMAW, etc. I try hard not to melt steel when I forge weld, because that usually results in me saying a lot of bad words, then cutting away some material and starting over.

Still curious about how steel quality affects the process.

You use LIBERALS for flux Matt?!? How do you get them to work?

Sorry guys I just couldn't resist and I'll take my spanking like a man. . .

Frosty the Lucky.

[MattBower]

I tried that once, Frosty, but he caught on before I was within arm's reach, and I couldn't catch him. ;)

[thingmaker3]

Still curious about how steel quality affects the process.

The lower the carbon content, the higher the melting temperature, and the higher temperature at which one may weld. Scale melts a bit above 2500F, within the welding temperature for wrought iron and low-carbon steel

http://www.tempil.com/PDF/Basic_Guide.pdf

So if the mystery mild steel on the old side of the pond is lower in carbon than the mystery mild steel on the new side of the pond...

It is a tightrope, but it CAN be done with mild steel. I've seen it done myself. I've also ruined a few pieces of mild steel trying, and darned near almost got it once. The fire MUST be neutral or reducing. Minimize the O2 to minimize both scale formation and combustion of the steel.

I've done it with electrolytic-process iron. Piece O cake & sheer joy, but pricey stuff.

[MattBower]

True enough, but carbon content isn't necessarily a "quality" issue. Have a feeling that's not what Grant and Sam were gettin' at, though I still hope one of 'em will chime in and clarify. (It's oh-dark-thirty on Sam's side of the pond, but it's just supper time for Grant!)

[John B]

Just for the record, I have done some forge welding. (I just happen to use liberal amounts of flux, and I'm interested to hear from folks who don't.) But when I do it, it's a solid state process -- unlike MIG, TIG, SMAW, etc. I try hard not to melt steel when I forge weld, because that usually results in me saying a lot of bad words, then cutting away some material and starting over.

Still curious about how steel quality affects the process.

Forge welding without flux is not that hard, it just takes practice and patience and don't burn the metal, you just bring the mating surfaces up to a "sweaty" molten look, not runny molten, place together and unite, then light taps then harder until united.

Having said that it has become noticable in recent years that some of the steel bars we purchase have areas that seem not to be weldable in the forge, even if fluxes are used, they just don't seem to stick and amalgamate, maybe its all the recycling thats going on I don't know for definite, but it can be frustrating even more so for those proficient in forgewelding when there is no apparent reason for it, especially when all other pieces used from the same bar has gone together fine.

This seems to happen only on the Mild steel, the higher carbon steels seem to work fine and consistent, probably because of the QC in manufacturing. (it has been known to find carbide inserts and other alien inclusions in some of the mild steel supplied)

I don't know if this helps or not, keep on trying, and good luck with it.

[maddog]

I get the impression that that the Europeans use more coal forges than in the US. Has anyone done fluxless welds in a gas forge?