cheftjcook Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Hey All, A friend gave me this piece of steel yesterday. It is a Rock Hammer Bit. I don't know what type of steel... Any guesses? I can tell you it is about 150 pounds(guess), it is 36" tall, 5 1/2" diameter. It has a rounded point at the top and a notched area towards the bottom. When struck with a hammer it rings like an Anvil. I was looking for some advice and Ideas as to what to use it for. Don't want to waste a neat gift. I thought about cutting a few 3 or 4 inch pieces on a friends bandsaw to make dishing tools like a I saw in a Bill Epps Tape. Any suggestions welcome! Thanks in advance for the help! TIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Nothing. You can do absolutly nothing with it. Since I'm a nice guy, I'll take it off your hands so it's not cluttering up your shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Murch Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I would cut the top off and use it down lower to support work while hot cutting with swinging a sledge. Cut it to the right height for yourself (lower than regular anvil height because you will be striking chisels), and set it vertically in a bucket of concrete. By the way, it wieghs about 230 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheftjcook Posted October 23, 2006 Author Share Posted October 23, 2006 Nick, Man what a nice guy...I truely appreciate the thought!(grin) Tyler, I new it was heavy when I lifted out of my truck, but wow...230lbs Glad I did'nt drop it on my toes!!! TIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapman1077 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Check it with a file BEFORE you try to cut it on a band saw ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevomiller Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I would set it up just like Tyler says ~ it would make a great bladesmithing anvil, or an anvil for use with a striker. All of the mass is directly under where you are hammering, and would behave like a traditional anvil weighing twice as much. Nice score. I wish that I had one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Treadle hammer anvil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Zietman Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 with a bit of shaping it'd make a very very nice round top sheetmetal stake for planishing and raising. Another thing you could do is, since it's so wide, flip it upside down so that the flat end is up, and embedd it in a big traskcan full of rocks and cement, it'll make a very nice bladesmithing anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me miller Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I go with Thomas P. treadle or Rusty hammer anvil . Should be right size and mass for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheftjcook Posted October 24, 2006 Author Share Posted October 24, 2006 Keep the Ideas comming... I am interested in the treadle hammer anvil that Thomas & Me Miller were suggesting. Do you guys have any style that would be better than another. I did a quick search for plans, can you point me to one of the better ones to check out. Thanks for the ideas so far, still keeping an open mind. TIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheftjcook Posted October 24, 2006 Author Share Posted October 24, 2006 Me Miller, What is a rusty hammer Anvil? Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Well I like the inline hammers; but didn't like the ones using a "chain drive". However I have now seen several built with the toggle linkage for the drive bar that I am impressed with. I haven't reviewed plans as I plan to build my own---I've been scrounging stuff for a while and have a nice 1" plate for the base and a heavy I beam for the back upright and a 5.25" round for the anvil...what I need know is power to my shop, I have an old lincoln tombstone (225 volt AC arc welder) and 50# of rod just waiting! Note if you want a heavier anvil that round would still make *several* nice top dies for treadle hammers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Put it on the head of a big log, it owuld make a great battering ram. I would go with the treadle hammer anvil idea. But one for forging, not just chiseling and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheftjcook Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 Thomas, I am not very familar so I have been reading what is available to catch up. One I was reading about is a "Gade-Marx" treadle hammer from an Abana web site. It seemed very similar to the clay spenser model except simpler. The author expressed the like for less moving parts and less fine adjustments. I really don't mean to sound stupid (but if the shoe fits) Its Better for me, trying to build one for the first time to get as much of a straight forward plan, less intricate the better. I think the plans were about $10. or so. There are plans all over for the clay Spencer treadle hammer. I guess I will have to buy a set to understand better the differnces you talk about. the toggle linkage, chain drive, etc. When you refer to inline is that the position on the hammer above the anvil base. The pics I looked at seemed to work on a pivoting upper arm dropping onto a lower anvil type plate. Not in line above the anvil/plate Again I appologize for lack of knowledge so please bear with me... It seemed I would need a tall beam in the back with the pivot arm, a shorter stout beam to hold the anvil or plate in the front and the pivoting arm would hold the heavy hammer. It also looks as though I would need to find some killer springs for the movement. And abviously a foot thingy to stomp on. Would I cut the large piece of steel I have and make one part the anvil and one part the hammer? Thanks for the patience TIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 OK there were two basic types of treadle hammers: in one, the swing arm type, the head traced a parabolic path as it descended mounted solidly to the arm. In other the "in-line type: the head travesl only up and down with no arc to it's movement. The swing arm is easy to design and build but has the problem that there is a sideways component to it's blow and it must be height adjustable as if you are using tooling one a tall piece the hammer's impact will not be directly above the middle of the anvil due to the arc the head travels The in-line types are a bit more complex to design. The first ones I saw had the head riding in a vertical tube above the anvil and used something like a bike chain over cogged wheels to pull it up and let it down---I did not like this method as it looked like there would be more energy losses in it. The new version of the in-line I saw at Quad-State still had the head riding in a vertical tube but used a drive arm much like the swing arm burt with a toggle linkage near the main upright to allow the drive arm to shift back as the head descended in a straight line. I have a handout from a Company that was selling them I'll try to find a link to a picture of them. Why I like to design my own is it's a lot cheaper to use what you have on hand than try to duplicate someone else's plan and have to go buy stuff new that originally was probably just what was in their scrap pile. exp: So far I have the base, anvil(~400#), back upright and arms, springs and have only spent US$40 total. Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Thomas, WHERE DID YOU GET A 400 POUND ANVIL FOR CLOSE TO NOTHING!? Do you mean an anvil anvil or a big block of steel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheftjcook Posted October 26, 2006 Author Share Posted October 26, 2006 Thomas, Thank you for the explanations and info. I think I like the Idea of the inline better than the pivot type. I found this example( see pic) on line I think I will try somthing like that as I scrounge more parts. Thanks again its appreciated. TIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 You can get Clay Spencer's plans from ABANA (I believe) for both a swing arm and an inline treadle hammer. I used his inline plans to build mine. But I bascially used those as a guide for the dimensions of the individual pieces. My goal was to scrounge as much as possible, and I was able to build it for around $50. But that means pretty much ignoring most of the supplied parts list. I found Clay's plans to be very useful, though. They gave me lots of ideas and things like the mechanics, spring selection, etc., would have taken a lot of trial and error experimenting. Overall, the only thing I'm disappointed about it is the the length of time it took me to get off my butt and build one of these. It's so incredibly useful. Some pictures of it are at:Blacksmiths Gallery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheftjcook Posted October 26, 2006 Author Share Posted October 26, 2006 Marc thats a neat looking treadle hammer, and all from found materials! congrats!!! I gotta get busy scrounging up parts. If I understand correctly you went with a hammer head that was lighter, giving up harder impact or force to speed up the times between hits, more hits per minute so to speak equals more work done. Has it worked out better? And after having built this one and experimenting do you feel there is an optimum hammer weight to go with? Is the bottom /anvil piece solid steel or is it a tube you filled with something and welded a face onto? TIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 HAHA Chef, that is trying It's genius hammer! Nice hammer Marc, looks great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 I haven't done any experimenting with hammer weights. I can only compare with the very small time I've spent on other hammers. I do like my arrangement better than the others I've tried, though. With those drawing dies, I can easily draw out 3/4" square. I haven't tried anything bigger, but I don't see how 1" would be a problem. It's most definitely not power hammer speed, but a lot closer to that than hand hammering. The nice thing about keeping it light is for smaller stuff. Things like chiseling veins in leaves is great. I can easily modulate the force so I don't cut through. Shearing and splitting is also great. I've got a cutting "hack", basically a hot-cut blade with a welded handle, that went through 1/2" square in two or three blows. I just put an aluminum channel over the anvil head to protect the hack. And I was able to split some 3/8" for about 2-1/2" using my regular hot cutting chisel in one heat. The anvil is two solid pieces. The long piece is a journal, or bearing surface, from a paper mill roller. The bottom is some cutoff from who knows what, but it weighs around 360 lbs. So together the anvil is around 500 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Nice hammer, not much more tweaking and you could add a motor :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 The one I'm working on building is not the teeter-totter version of an inline so it saves the "backworks" space of that design. As to where I got my treadle hammer anvil" A friend of mine worked for a bearing factory as a metallurgist and was able to buy scrap off them at their *selling* rate. They had a number of pieces of large round stock (over 5" dia and 40+" long) come through and my friend asked if the local smithg group wanted any. I bought 4 pieces; sold 2 for twice what I had paid and so had two free---I gave one of thoise away to a friend. It's 4340 IIRC. I don't plan to weld to it but will build a collar to hold it on the base and to hold the top hardy set up on---allowing it to be rotated. Still scrounging for the top die piece. The US$40 I paid for the 1" thick base at the local university surplus auction. The other misc parts came from another smith wanting to clean out his scrap pile a bit---actually his *wife* wanted the pile diminished...and I was happy to oblige. Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Marc, if you could cut a little bit off the top of the die, or from another source, you could forge them into dies, then to make the spinning die holder, find a peice of pipe that fits over your bottom die, and attach it or slip it right over, find a way to lock it in place and then mount your dies to the top of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 ApprenticeMan, I'm not really sure what you're referring to. Maybe you mean Thomas and the rotating die holder? Personally, I'm really satisfied with being able to rotate in 90-deg increments. My die holders are just hardy holes. The bottom die isn't clamped or wedged in. The top die is held in by the wedge. But this is one place where I differed from Clay Spencer's design. I have four posts holding the die holders up and can drive the wedge between the posts to position the die, so the die can be in any of four positions. Clay has his holders sitting on two large rounds mounted horizontally, so the wedge can only go in two ways, 180-deg away from each other. Ian, there's a company out there that sells a treadle hammer built to Clay's plans. They sell an option to add an air cylinder to get some big hits. It doesn't repeat, though. But originally I was thinking of making a combination treadle/power hammer. It would have been very much like the one Cheftjcook showed, but built like a Rusty power hammer with a spare tire clutch. And it would have been convertable by switching linkages around. But when it comes time to JUST DO IT, I set my sights lower. So now, I actually am pretty happy with what I can do with it. I no longer have power hammer envy. Never thought I'd see this day, I tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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