Hammers

[John B]

the other to your required shape, and is used as a hand hammer,of a sledge hammer or some other means of imparting extra weight to the blow,

when I took Brian's hammer course we used his fullers and struck them with with sledge hammers ...thus the question

Hi Jimbob,

Exactly, "we used his Fullers and struck them with with sledge hammers" not fullering hammers,




These fullers (not fullering hammers) are just used for that type of task, and were they in fact hardened at both ends? I suspect not, perhaps Brian can elucidate.

To reiterate hammers' faces should never be struck with objects harder than their faces which is why the terminology and tool descriptions are important,

with the exception of what is known as a set(t) hammer, which is basically a square faced fuller, that when it becomes larger on the face it is probably known as a flatter but thats a whole other post.

I am just a little envious at the moment as you have seen him in action, unfortunately I can only forsee myself viewing him via video or pictures, but even then he is very impressive.

[jimbob]

John I think we both saying the same thing ... I was going to make some fullers but not sure how to temper the striking end ...

[John B]

John I think we both saying the same thing ... I was going to make some fullers but not sure how to temper the striking end ...

To answer your question, you do not temper the striking end,

There are various methods to making and hardening fullers,

One way is to forge to finished shape and then normalise/allow to cool, then just harden and temper the functioning face below the eye, I have my own methods, which is to just heat the working end/face, then partially quench the end in oil, remove from oil and polish, then catch the tempering colour I want as the colour bands work back down to the face.

If you are not happy with this method, then just heat the working end/face below the eye and harden it, clean it up and then temper with whatever method you choose, oven, mandrel in eye, or blowtorch to bring it to the tempering temparature required at the face, then either quench or leave, depending on which method you are using, (Oven won't require a quench)

Hope this helps, works for me and glad we got clarification, hammer face to hammer face makes me shudder!

Don't forget to do the same with the bottom mating fuller if you are going to make it fit your hardie hole

[Holzkohle]

Jimbob
What we used in Brian's classes were set or top fullers, meant to be struck with a sledge.
What Brian is describing here is a hammer with a fuller type face on one end and another shape face intended to be used as a hammer on the other, could be a fuller with another curvature; therefore hardened and tempered on both ends.

As stated previously, Brian refers to using the different curves/radii as dies depending on what angle that he strikes the metal with whatever hammer face that he is using. (Brian, please correct me if what I have said is not accurate)

Jerry

[brianbrazealblacksmith]

Brian: Are your hammer eyes punched straight through,tapered from one side,or do they have a waist in the middle(tapered from both ends)? thanks, Eric S.

Eric, they are tapered from bothe ends. You get this from drawing out the cheaks onto the drift from the center towards the big side of the drift, then reapeat on the other side.


Thanks, John B and Jerry for covering for me. Here is a picture of some top tools, bottom tools, and my hammer. I don't harden most of my top tools anymore. I never harden the struck end of top tools. The only ones that I harden the working end on are the flatter and the set hammer because I will use them on cold steal sometimes. I also don't put wedges in the top tools, and I put the handle in the last side that I ran the drift in making it the biggest side of the hole. I learned that from Alfred Habermann. It helps to have the handles of top tools easy to get on and off for reworking tools and replacing handles.

[jimbob]

Brian after re-reading this thread a couple times I believe your using your fullering hammer the way most of us use a straight pein hammer but the pein end is/has a lot larger radius instead of 1/2 its up to and inch or better..is that correct?

[brianbrazealblacksmith]

Jimbob, check out the "one heat tong blank" or "one heat horse head" threads. They show exactly how I'm using that hammer.

[brutaldeluxe]

hello Brian !!! beautiful hammer i like to see your work , your hammer look nice .
i like to forge with the "brian hammer" i have made , it's the same of a sculptor whit is hands in the clay !!!! :rolleyes:

[LDW]

Here is the one heat horse head video http://picasaweb.google.com/brianbrazealblacksmith/OneHeatHorseHead#5411969742893139602


and here is the tong blank video http://picasaweb.google.com/brianbrazealblacksmith/TongBlank#5444538182975584098

[jimbob]

Here is the one heat horse head video http://picasaweb.google.com/brianbrazealblacksmith/OneHeatHorseHead#5411969742893139602


and here is the tong blank video http://picasaweb.google.com/brianbrazealblacksmith/TongBlank#5444538182975584098

thanks for reposting that I couldn't find the last one...so when you make that long face fuller is it forged the
same as the round face excep using a swedge block

[LDW]

I think I attached a picture that shows the hardy tool Brian made. It has the three inch fuller recessed into it. A swage block will work fine, in some of the older pictures that is what was used.

[ofafeather]

I found the One Heat Tong thread here:

and came across Brian's video showing the whole process with clay:

http://picasaweb.google.com/brianbrazealblacksmith/TongBlankInClay#

It was great for me because he explains the whole process and it's clear to see how he uses the fullering hammer - fullering die and flat die.

That left me with a couple of questions though - what kind of clay do you use? Also, what exactly is planishing? Is it flattening? Brian has more one heat videos in his Picasa web album which I plan on watching. Thanks, Brian!

[eric sprado]

Brian: You're probably getting sick of all of our questions,but it is REALLY nice to have someone with your knowledge take time with us!!!!! If your hammers are tapered from both ends,and I see from your pictures that the handles are just sticking through the head and not wedged,the handles must be held in by just the lower half of the hammer head. Whew-is that a clear question?? Hope so.Thanks, Eric S..

[bigfootnampa]

So a new question for you Brian... do you use 1045 for some of these top tools? I know that you like it for hammers... just wondering if it works okay for unhardened top tools also, as I have a decent supply of it and can get more reasonably easily. After working a little monel and some D2 my power hammer says it really likes 1045 too!

[brianbrazealblacksmith]

ofafeather, LDW got that clay at HobbyLobby. It is just modeling clay or plasticine. Planishing is smoothing the metal, like you would do with a flatter. That is what I do when I strike the metal with the flat die of my hammer parallel to the surface of the metal hitting the small high spots. Flattening is similar, but you strike bows in your metal instead of varying thicknesses in your metal.

Eric, I do have wedges in my hammers but not in my top tools. I do run the drift farther on the final drift of the top tools so it is not hour glass shaped.

bigfootnampa, Yes, I do use 1045 for top and bottom tools, but most of mine are made from 4140 because that is what I've had availiable to me mostly over the years. I also prefer to hammer on 1045 compared with the ohter stuff.

[Robert Simmons]

Here's some hammers Lyle, LDW, and I forged yesterday, 2 rounding hammers and 2 fullering hammers. Lyle gets his pick of the fullering hammers and the other will go to rapula in Columbia for 3 mini anvils that we traded while he was in the states working with my brother. The big rounding hammer is mine. The smaller one goes to "Tim the toolman" from Mississippi. Tim traded a 20 pound set hammer in brand new shape while we were at Fire in the Swamp last month for a hammer, and we finally got around to forging it. I still have to grind, heat treat, and handle them.

Wow, looks fantastic. Great job. I have been trying to locate good forging hammers that dont cost an arm and a leg. At the local farrier they want 100 bucks for a 2# hammer! Any suggestions on where to find them, other than your obviously accomplished hands?

[brianbrazealblacksmith]

Wow, looks fantastic. Great job. I have been trying to locate good forging hammers that dont cost an arm and a leg. At the local farrier they want 100 bucks for a 2# hammer! Any suggestions on where to find them, other than your obviously accomplished hands?

I do give private classes where you can strike and make your own hammer, but you can buy a 2 1/2 pound rounding hammer for less than $100 from farrier suppliers. Both faces are round, though. Uri Hofi, Brent Bailey, Nathan Robertson make hand made hammers at a very reasonable price.

[jimbob]

Brian can you give any insight as to how to punch the eye with out a helper some one to hold the billet ...I was thinking along the lines of a VEE shaped mule to fit the hardy ...

[brian.pierson]

Brian,

I got my hands on a 3 inch top swage. I am planning on making a fullering hammer to go with the rounding hammer you made in Va last fall. I have some 1045 for the hammer. I was planning on reversing the order and put the flat on the anvil face and the top swage on the fuller end instead of the flatter. Are there any obvious gotcha's that a novice is missing? I have thought through it and can't find any so I am asking while this topic is out here.

Brian

[brianbrazealblacksmith]

Brian can you give any insight as to how to punch the eye with out a helper some one to hold the billet ...I was thinking along the lines of a VEE shaped mule to fit the hardy ...

Start with square stock or use a power hammer or press.

[brianbrazealblacksmith]

Brian,

I got my hands on a 3 inch top swage. I am planning on making a fullering hammer to go with the rounding hammer you made in Va last fall. I have some 1045 for the hammer. I was planning on reversing the order and put the flat on the anvil face and the top swage on the fuller end instead of the flatter. Are there any obvious gotcha's that a novice is missing? I have thought through it and can't find any so I am asking while this topic is out here.

Brian

You've got it figured right, go for it. Just keep it straight,

[brian.pierson]

And don't put it in water when quenching.... I do remember some of the rules.


I still have to make a couple of drifts before I am ready for the hammer.


Your hammer in the picture of your avatar looks like one of the faces is canted at an angle. Is it a trick of the camera or the way you forged it?

Jimbob, wouldn't a round swage hold the blank better than a "V"? I would think you would need a hold down coming from the pritchel also. The blanks will bounce if my memory is serving me right.

Brian

[brianbrazealblacksmith]

Must be a trick of the camera, it's straight.

[jimbob]

Jimbob, wouldn't a round swage hold the blank better than a "V"? I would think you would need a hold down coming from the pritchel also. The blanks will bounce if my memory is serving me right.

Brian

no doubt, but I have angle iron to make it...I have one of the vice grips for a drill press modtified for for the pritchel hole from what brian said above I was also thinking of making a hammer eye slitting punch to fit my treddle hammer..that might work out pretty good in a one man shop

[ofafeather]

Brian, just want to say THANKS! I find your work very inspiring and appreciate the chance to see it through your videos. Also, your in depth explanations and patience with questions really go a long way in helping this newbie understand the craft better. Thank you! If I were closer I would love to take a workshop with you.