Ive been reading various posts for the last few weeks... unfortunately I'm a visual/learn-on-the-fly type and was wondering if anyone is in the socal area. I'm very new to metal working and most knowledge is theoretical at this point. I'd like to meet someone if possible to really see if I wish to pursue this as a hobby(although I must admit I'm very intrigued).

Welcome, where are you from?

I'll second that. If we don't know where ya are its hard to help. Might be a group or a smithy just down the road. I have introduced neighbors to a local guild they never knew was there.
Ken

I'd be happy to have you over but I have NO CLUE where you are. If you were to put your location in your message header thingy, whatever it's called, along with your name and the AVATAR you haven't included old farts like me could stop by without having to rely on our failing memory if we were in your neighborhood and wanted a tasty snack or comfy place to nap. Heck, we might, just MIGHT be convinced to answer a questoin or 20 and maybe show you a trick or two. You just never know what a tasty snack will do for ya.

Frosty the Lucky.

Sorry I know better than to not put up a location, I'm actually in Anaheim

I'm actually in Anaheim

IForgeIron is visited by over 50 world wide countries each month. Anaheim where, what country?

Anaheim, California USA

His post says socal area, so I'm guessing he's a Disneylander.

Yes there are dangers to posting exact locations but my "central New Mexico" seems to work for me and yet be good enough for folks to see if they are near by. As much of smithing stuff is expensive to transport finding local sources can be a great help to your budget!

Anaheim Eh? I used to live in the North end of the San Fernando Valley, within sight of Bush Gardens on a clear day in fact.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure city and state is more than close enough and probably uninteresting to nefarious types phishing the web. Heck, just being in Anaheim should be more than enough to discourage visitors. (Sorry, I couldn't resist, just a little friendly ribbing from an old S.Cal boy.

Frosty the Lucky.

After all the heckeling go to www.calsmith.org the Califonia Blacksmith Association is large and well organized.

Its all in good fun, thanks for the swift replies, and I'll check out calsmith at half time.
-Randy

Sorry I know better than to not put up a location, I'm actually in Anaheim

Ah my ole stomping grounds. I grew up right off Orange between Beach and Dale. Give me another year and I should be back out at Pendleton.

alright Im off Euclid and Katella... Went to Loara

I'm in Arizona, but I 'll be going to Garden Grove first week of July to deposit 2 nieces with their Grandmama. Go to my page and leave me a private message. Maybe we can make contact. I'm not as good as most of these other fellas but I've been trying longer than most.

again I wasnt specific enough, Im just starting out I have yet to build my forge. Im a believer in keep it simple stupid and killing two birds with one stone. With that in mind i was considering making a forge that I could also use as a foundry. Is this a feasible idea? If so I was thinking of making a propane or used oil burner, are these burners ideal? secondly am I being too ambitious with a combo as mentioned above?

P.S. Im only twenty, all apologies if Im being naive, I blame my age lol

-Randy

"I want to make a car that I can win races with and carry a ton of dirt with can this be done?

Yes but you would be much happier having two itmems specialized for their uses. Save a lot of money using them having two as well.

And no the propane burners for things like house furnaces or hot water tanks are not appropriate. You can make a much better one from plumbing parts yourself!

I have done quite a bit of small casting using my forge to melt a couple of ounces of copper, brass, bronze and silver (fine and sterling) for jewelry and knife fittings but I sure wouldn't want to cast several pound pours with it!

alright Im off Euclid and Katella... Went to Loara

Too funny I went to Magnolia then transferred to Loara mid junior year class of 93.

Start small and once you have your feet under you you can improve.

Depending on the4 size of the work you want to do a forge/melter can most certainly be built, it won't be ideal for either purpose but it will work okay.

A furnace oil burner CAN be made to work as a forge burner but it's not only tricky it can be REALLY dangerous. A smith here in AK uses old oil burners in his big shop forge but he worked for years on oil boilers and knows exactly what he's doing. Here's the danger using an old oil burner, if for some reason it flames out but is still delivering fuel oil the vapor is a fuel air bomb waiting for ignition and in short order static electricity will provide it. If you want a little more info, Google FAE or Fuel Air Explosive. In the world of IEDs FAEs are the poor man's nuclear bomb. No fooling a 55gl drum of diesel fuel atomized and dispersed properly is enough explosive force to level a city block. Half a gallon will turn a nice sized house into spreading debris.

Needless to say I do NOT recommend using a fuel oil burner in a forge or melter unless you have your poop in a group.

On the upside, making a propane burner is pretty straight forward if you took a metal shop class in high school, you're golden. There are plenty of designs to be found online if you look. The two basic types of Naturally Aspirated (NA) burner, commonly called "atmospheric burners" or incorrectly called "venturi burners." Ron Reil has spent a lot of time and effort designing a (linear inducer) type burner made from commonly available plumbing fittings. A linear inducer is one of the two basic types of NA propane burners. Mike Porter spent almost as much time developing an Ejector type burner which is the other basic type of NA burner.

While you can build one of Ron's EZ burners with not much more than a electric hand drilland care it takes more time and skill to get tuned.

A Porter generation 5 burner on the other hand takes some machineshop skills and tools, it CAN be made with hand tools but it'd be a real mother bear.

The difference between a linear and an ejector induction device is beyond my understanding where the WHY is concerned. Simply put I have no idea why an ejector inducer is about 30% more efficient but they are. I've never studied fluidics and only know about Bernouli, I can't do the calculations or do more than explain the basics of the theroies in lay terms. The physical difference is easy to spot, a linear inducer's intake port is in direct line with the jet and tube. An ejector's air intakes are at a 90* angle to the jet and tube. That's it, no big difference eh? Outside of about 30% efficiency there isn't a lot of difference.

Here's why I build ejectors though mine aren't nearly as efficient nor as hard to make as Mike Porter's. A neutral Air Propane ratio is 17.5 to 1 (17.5:1). A commercially made linear inducer has a max induction rate of around 19:1, for every cubic foot of primary, propane in a burner's case fed to it, it'll induce 19 cubic feet of air. What this means to the home builder is you have to be darned spot on to get a proper flame.

A factory built ejector by comparison will induce 29:1 which means the home builder has a LOT more leeway in the build.

About 10 years ago a caster friend of mine on vacation visited us. Robert and I spent many happy hours over coffee with graph paper and pencils brainstorming ideas. I'd already tried Ron's basic design, the 1 1/2" x 3/4" bell reducer on a 7" length of 3/4" pipe with a jet aiming down the bore through the reducer and I wasn't all that thrilled with the results.

My next plan then was to try making an ejector and decided the easy way was to simply screw a "T" fitting on a pipe 8x the tube's ID. for some reason I didn't sketch the beasty out and the experimental one I had was buried in the Connex and I didn't dig it out. The next message I got from Robert included the ejector burner he'd built and I almost made a fool of myself by telling him he'd gotten it wrong. In truth, the darned thing was working beautifuly and the 1 1/4" model was doing iron melts. What was different between his and mine is how he'd screwed the "T" fitting on the burner tube. I screw mine on so they make a "T" and Robert had screwed it on so there was a single intake port to the side and he called it the "Side Arm" burner. A Google search will hit on lots of pics, plans, kits and finished burners. Larry Zoeller will be happy to sell you plan, kit or working side arm burner for a not unreasonable price.

The build drawback to my version is drilling and tapping a hole in the base of the "T" as close to exactly opposite the burner tube as possible. I use my lathe so it's no problem for me but a hassle requiring a jig if all you have is a drill press.

Anyway, if you want to take a lash at making your own propane forge / melter let me know, I'll be happy to help.

Frosty the Lucky.

well frosty, ****! I really appreciate taking the time to be as incredibly thorough as you are. Ill be pursuing the propane route, a fuel air bomb is not the way to go, on a side note, I dont know if your familiar with a thermobaric bomb but it works on a similar principle as a fuel/air but emphasizes gas expansion to create a large pressure wave that no cave dwellers can hide from. Ill be busy for the next few days possibly weeks to begin to comprehend what looks like years of knowledge and wisdom compressed into half a page, thanks again all for being so patient Ill be sure to let you all know how this venture unfolds.
-Randy

I'm one of the ole fossils who has demonstrated in California for CBA on four occasions: Petaluma, Cazadero, Santa Ana, and Vista. The Santa Ana workshop was hosted by the Orange County Guild, a division of CBA. There is lots of activity in California. Check out the Samuel Yellin Cemetary Gates in Redlands. It's worth the trip.

http://www.turleyforge.com Granddaddy of Blacksmith Schools

Frosty's burner as made by me.

Phil