Rick Rowlands Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I have the chance to save this 2 1/2 ton Sellers hammer and move it up to Youngstown to the Tod Engine Heritage Park. My plan is to reinstall it as a working piece, so I am curious as to what the foundations for these big hammers looked like. I believe they would be set upon a foundation of cribbed timber. None of my books have any details about big hammer installation, so I thought I would come here to ask for advice. Have any of you seen a foundation drawing for a big hammer that could be shared? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 wow that thing is huge please try to take pictures of the moving and post them here, I am sure some one on here can help you with regards to the foundation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimenickel Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 wow.. awesome hammer kinda neat how the operator looks sort of ghostly hopefully its not ceased up with rust... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 that is a machine for sure.... Someone will have some helpful info.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Rowlands Posted March 23, 2010 Author Share Posted March 23, 2010 That was a time exposure photo since the building is so dark. I guess the photographer (not me) forgot to tell the "official machinery enlarger" to stand still! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Rowlands Posted March 23, 2010 Author Share Posted March 23, 2010 BTW here is the actual catalog photo referred to in the cartoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisG Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I have no idea what the original foundation would be but, what about looking into newer materials being used for vibrating foundations. For some reason chipped, compressed rubber comes to mind. Some kind of engineered product. Might also help protect the other parts of the building from the vibrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 The Anvil's Ring from sometime in the mid 80's had an article about someone setting up a big industrial hammer, IIRC bigger than yours. Might have had a few photos of foundations or forms for same. There may also have been an article or two on the huge hammer at the Bethlehem Steelworks. Will try to remember to look thru my back issues this weekend to pin it down some more. It'll be a LOT of concrete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Can you contact a forge shop, and ask them? I believe Pacific Forge in Berkley Ca is still going, as well as others that may be closer to you. When Mare Island Naval Shipyard closed, after 100+ years, a lot of neat old tools got sold, or scrapped. Not a lot of people think about industrial history, especially developers that have $$$$ in their eyes. Sell it, and clear it out is all they want. One family day I got to see the steam hammers working in the forge shop. Still remember how the ground shook when they would hit hard, yet could also just tap the piece if need be. Lots of control, and lots of skill. I got the 18.5"x78" Axelson lathe out of my Dad's classroom, but couldn't afford the platen table. Have yet to see another one that thick, must have been 8"-10". Anyway, I hope you can save it, and get the info that you need to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 If it has a patent number on it sometimes the patent drawings show how it is susposed tobe set up. May be worth a look see. Also when you are breaking it down you may want to do a little digging to see what's under that hammer. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason0012 Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 There were two articles by Don Hawley back in the 80's in the Anvil's Ring. I have them some where, I will try digging them up tomorrow, perhaps they could be posted here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLMartin Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 whats with the man standing admittedly to the left of the hammer in the picture, you can kinda see though him, ghost of some long gone operator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn;-) Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 I believe any copy of "Machinery Handbook" with a edition number under 10 should have specs on what the foundation should be for a hammer of that size. I have a book somewhere in my storage lockup that is specifically on foundations for power hammers but I couldn't lay my hands on it if my life depended on it... There is likely a Google Books ebook with the info they are digitizing all kinds of old books;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Are you hoping to install it as a steam hammer? If so, is steam available at the new location? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciladog Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Here are some interestiing links to info on modern day press and hammer installations. The first link has two videos on the page. First is installation of 24,000 ton press and the second is about hammer installation.videos This link is pictures of a massive fondation for a 12,000 ton press.pictures Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGropp Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 There' an illustration of a hammer just like that one on page 16 of " Hammer Work " Originally published by International Textbook Co. 1906 reprinted by Lindsay Publications Inc. ISBN 1-55918-076-5. There's a foundation plan on page 17 for a single arch hammer of comparable size . The anvil block is sitting on a deep stack of heavy timbers and the hammer itself is supported and bolted to heavy timbers sitting on massive brick piers. There is also some discussion further on of the advantages and disadvantages of using elastic timber foundations as opposed to massive cast concrete foundations for large steam hammers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Or, you can print your own from Google Books: Hammer Work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Rowlands Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 Yes that is the exact same hammer. A "Morrison" hammer it is called. That book was very helpful, thanks! I took a good look at the hammer yesterday, and the base casting is 7' x 14' 6" with a square hole in the center in which the anvil sticks up through. There are six bolts holding down the base plate. It should come out fairly straightforward, assuming that I have enough lifting capacity. There was another double frame hammer next to this one. The base plant and anvil still survive, and judging by the size of the base plate and the height of the cut off steam line it was about twice the size of the Morrison hammer. I'm glad its not there, or I would be trying to save it too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 It's nice to recommend that he buy and install the latest technology for the base of the hammer but that stuff ain't cheap. The best option maybe to continue using the original type of foundation and vibration isolation. I don't think they will be using the hammer all that much compared to what it was used in original production work any way. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Rowlands Posted March 26, 2010 Author Share Posted March 26, 2010 I don't think there is any chance that I will buy something when I can find it free or cheap. These projects are expensive enough without adding costs. Here is the base plate and the anchor bolts. Hopefully its not grouted in too tightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 The last time a saw anybody install a big hammer they used railroad ties for the timbers because they were reasonably priced and already treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 Very rare for hammers to be grouted in as the vibration quickly kills any grout. Generally they have either wood, vibration isolation material, or such under the base plate. The anvil however is more than likely going to be wedged into the foundation with tight fitting fitted wooden wedges, or concrete, or something just as difficult to remove. Allow time for removal of the anvil, the hammer itself is usually easy to remove, just undo the bolts and lift, anvils always are more taxing. Thats why you often see preserved hammers missing the anvil, people just lost interest once they realised the amount of work involved. Not trying to put you off Rick, just forwarned is forarmed. Anvils normally weighed 10 times the working weight (weight of falling parts) of the hammer, so 25 ton say for the anvil on this sucker. I saved a fair bit from the forge shop at BHP steelworks in Newcastle here before it was demolished, would have liked to get more, but money and time was not on my side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Rowlands Posted March 29, 2010 Author Share Posted March 29, 2010 Yes I figured that the anvil will be a bugger, and that too is my weight estimate. Actually removal of the hammer will be the easier of my projects at this plant. The truly complex one is removal of this 150 ton Corliss engine in the building next to the forge shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 Where is the Corliss going? I know of a few big steam engines that where extricated and relocated, however not sure any weighed 150 tons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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