finn;-)

Nope! Actually what I wanted was for Larry to drop that off at Ernie's house and have him slip it into a flatrate box to me;-) But I will have to settle for a vid;-) Christian Husband Father Blacksmith Farrier Farmer Coveteous of power hammers large and small;-) Mainly large, but I wouldn't turn down a small one.

They are a little rough as you said, but very functional as is... I would probably try taking a low heat on them and run a flatter across the length of the arms and see if you can remove the thickening at the edges, especially as you get close to the pivot point. Save some bench work, and I like problems I can solve with a hammer;-) If you leave a smooth enough hammer finish, you can power wire brush it hot, and not need to do any bench work at all. I would probably mess with the shoulder behind the fork until it made a more graceful transition, but I am picky about that kinda thing, and slow because of it;-) You could even add a bit of file work right there at the transition, a couple of chainsaw files might be interesting:-) A wingnut is definitely a good idea, and can add a lot of character to a piece like this. This is another one of those projects on my to-do list, but so is finishing my gas forge... ;-) Christian Husband Father Blacksmith Farrier Farmer The rest just gets in the way... and some of this is slipping;-)

I think what he was looking for was it is a straight pein hammer, my wife had a crosspein that looked kinda like it too;-)

Clifton mentioned that almost all they ever used to make tooling in the steel mill was 4140, I guess the antispalling characteristic were why. An Aweful lot of old fashioned industrial smiths are dead set against using fancy air hardening tool steel under a big hammer. But I suppose all it would take would be one tool exploding like a claymore mine and scaring or hurting me to convince me H13 and S7 shouldn't be used under a power hammer (unless they are really well designed with safety in mind like the sheilded bottom punch described in a previous post:-) Also be carefull to anneal the striking end and use a differential heat treat on the tools, the last thing you want to do is turn your flat die into a texturing die, cause your tooling is harder than your dies;-)

I have been really blessed to be allowed to play on a number of cool hammers over the years. The first power hammer experience I had was forging a socketed spear on a 100#LG at live demo at a Steam & Power Show. At the time I was thrilled at how much steel a power hammer would let me work. I was also apauled by how grabby the clutch was on the 100#, and it didn't have a BRAKE, the funny thing was everyone kept commenting on how nice and polite a hammer it was, how responsive;-) So I decide I didn't trust a little giant to not just randomly smash what I was working on;-) About two years later I had bought a Bull 75 air hammer (which I still have, in pieces at the moment...;-) I was sold by Tom Trozak's interview in the Anvil Magezine, and the video of the control you got with a utility style air hammer. I've played on a Big Blu, and a Blu Max, and an IronKiss 90. All of the modern utility hammers have very nice control. I would have to say I REALLY enjoyed playing on the Steam Hammers the most. A beautiful 650# Niles-Bement-Pond which needed a driver, a 400# Chambursburg with an ecentric on the treadle, a 250# Eire Steam Hammer. Steam Hammers ROCK, depending on how they are rigged it takes a bit of getting used to when you go to adjust them, but wonderful power and great control once you know that machine;-) The standard LG's 25, 50, 100, and 250, all except for the 500. I have found LGs to be somewhat ill-mannered beasts;-) I generally admit that they can do a lot of work FAST, but I think they have a steeper learning curve, and will still eat your lunch if you aren't always on your best behavior. A 100# Central Machinery mechanical, clutch was a little sticky wasn't too rude. A 250# Blacker style homebuilt hammer run on a 17hp wisconson gas engine;-) Kinda scarey, but kinda fun too;-) A 110# Say Mak, and a little Kuhn selfcontained hammer. Very well mannered easy to use hammers I really want to get a decent sized Steam Hammer set up running on air, or a Nazel or other OLD self contained hammer. Maybe in 5 or 10 years;-)

I believe any copy of "Machinery Handbook" with a edition number under 10 should have specs on what the foundation should be for a hammer of that size. I have a book somewhere in my storage lockup that is specifically on foundations for power hammers but I couldn't lay my hands on it if my life depended on it... There is likely a Google Books ebook with the info they are digitizing all kinds of old books;-)

A light oil that slings out a bit will also carry away some of the abrassive crud that end up sticking to the hammer in a shop. You can wipe some of the grime away and apply fresh oil, whenever you start and finish with the hammer to help reduce wear. Grease if it is an exposed area of the hammer will tend to collect scale and dirt, and 'lapp' the guides etc... I agree with a previous poster, if it isn't slinging oil on the ceiling it probably is too dry;-) The clutch will probably be a little grabby if it isn't swimming in oil, lubed up right you should be able to feather the treadle and get one slap and slower cycling of the ram

Thanks for you help, and advice:-) But I think my hammer is a little different from what you are describing. When I bought mine Tom told me that they had redesigned the 75 to be a true 75# hammer... I will need to measure my ram but I do not think it is 6x9? and my control rod attaches to a plastic arm attached to the side of the ram at the top and a pivot point above the frame of the hammer. I will need to see if I can get some pics as to how mine is plumbed and tigged up. I suspect that there were several things going wrong all at the same time that conspired to make my control problems worse. When I first got the hammer is was a pure dream to use, but as I got it broke in good it got a little sloppy and I tried to tighten up the guides just a bit. First problem;-) At this point I am not sure my pilot valves are functioning correctly and I am not sure my main throttle is exhausting correctly either. There seems to be a fair amount of play in the bracket that fits onto the valve, when I first noticed it I thought at the time that it might have been made that way intentionally??? Now I am not so sure. I know my top limiter is set too high... Right now I would love to get the hammer back up and running even if I don't have a foundation for the hammer yet, or a roof over the shop (the BUll is hiding in a little storage shed, waiting till I have the time to tackle it;-) I have a 6" diameter axil forging courtesy of ptree, that weighs 454# and have been planning on building either a mechanical hammer or another air hammer on it. I was all hot to build a tire hammer, or a a guided ram helve, but after reading this thread and getting some neat ideas about how to go about it, I'm leaning back toward doing an air hammer. I have more than enough sufficiently heavy structural steel to build one hammer, a hydraulic press, my overhead cranes... But if I want to build a mechanical as well I need to come up with another anvil... Luckily I have a good scrap yard near here, and a discount steel yard only an hour and a half away;-) I'd LOVE to find a 1'x2'x3' H13 drop from a mold shop to use as the anvil;-) Christian Husband Father Blacksmith Farrier Freetime is that like disposable income???

I have really enjoyed this thread, Thanks. I really haven't felt comfortable in my understanding of the controls of just how the air hammer opperated. Objectively I know what is going on, but it really hasn't jelled into reality to me. I really like the hollow ram with the pulling cyclinder in the Bull design. I have a Bull 75 new style ( where the ram is actually 75#, but not so new as the pheonix design with the controls on the lower back of the machine...) My problem has been that I have broken the cyclinder once, and the mounting bolt twice, because the tup was SLAMMING up into the frame too hard... So I have been trying to debug a system that I haven't really understood completely ;-( So this thread has really helped. Once I get the new tie rods in for the cyclinder, and get a roof over my new shop... I will hopefully understand things well enough to trouble shoot a bit better. But as to design ideas, I had thought of using some heavy walled U channel to make a hollow ram with enough rigidity but that would still allow me enough clearance to pin the bottom of the cyclinder through both sides of the frame. This would keep the design balanced and symetrical, and would also overcome the weakness of the mounting of the cyclinder in the original BULL design. I was thinking of using a larger hydraulic cyclinder maybe a 3" cyclinder with the flat plate steel clevis's that would fit inside the U channel. Durability and overengineering are a good thing in my book. I seem to remember Bob Bergman mentioning to Nathan Robertson that there were sometimes issues with keeping the two cycliders balanced especially in larger versions??? But like I said I love my air hammer, but don't really feel like I understand things well enough, I could easily have misunderstood what Bob was talking about. Christian Husband Father Blacksmith Farrier Farmer I like problems I can solve with a hammer, I am good with a hammer ;-)

The only thing I use the motor oil on is axe heads, they come out of the quench hot and buff them up with wool or cotton, then grind an edge on them. Look pretty decent that way... ;-) I use linseed oil and beeswax, and or johnson's paste wax on traditional stuff for inside. Bacon grease to "season" food handling items. Black satin rustoleum on most everything else... Need to look into getting set up to do powder coating... Christian Husband Father Blacksmith Farrier Farmer Freetime is that like disposable income???

The amount of power you are getting out of your utility style air hammer is also determined, by how hard you are pushing it. If you are just barely reaching the stock and gently slapping it at the turn around point, you will get very light blows, which can be very useful. If you smash the treadle down, and the ram is still accelerating as it hits the steel you can get a nice punch, on some hammers you might have to drop the limiter switch down to prevent premature brakeing of the ram, ie buffering, beggining the turnaround...) Christian Husband Father Blacksmith Farrier Farmer....

Most of the ceramic fiber blanket insulation is rated, to a specific tempature... I'm also in the process of building a new forge, I just ordered 2" Inswool HZ 2400, and 1" Inswool HZT 2700. The thicker blanket is good for up to 2400 degrees, but should never see that high a temp, cause I will have a layer of 2700 degree material on top of it smorked down with Satinite, ITC100, Bubble Alumina, and sacrifical firebrick on the floor for good measure. The Satinite is cheaper and helps the ITC100 go a bit further, plus it helps bulk up the wool and make it a bit more sturdy. The Bubble Alumina is supposed to be pretty durable and Very flux resistant. I would trust the Kaowool and Inswool, lots of guys have built their forges out of those two brands of ceramic fiber insulation, and as long as you use atleast a rigidizer... It seems to work well and be safe. If you are planning on doing a lot of forgewelding, you will need to do something to protect the stuff from the flux. Untreated Inswool/Kaowool evaporates when flux gets on it, you probably know this but it never hurts to give a little more information than a person needs, rather than letting them learn things the hard way... ;-) Satinite protects against the flux a little bit, ITC100 protects a bit better, but still not great, the Bubble Alumina is supposed to protect really well. Then there are the hard firebricks, kilnshelves, welding bricks, and the kitty litter:-) I ordered supplies from two different suppliers for this forge build: From Jay Hayes, I order a Fuelsaver manifold kit, ITC100, and some burner flares and bricks. I had to phone him to get him to send me an email price list, and then I emailed my order to him and he figured shipping, he was very helpful and shipped promptly. He sent me some pics of the forge kits that he puts together, and was very knowledgable about building gas forges (his day job is a flame engineer designing burners for industry:-) The other supplier was Ellis Custom Knives, who had nice price breaks on larger amounts of Inswool and the Satinite, and Bubble Alumina, as well as other castable refactories and coatings. They also carried the Ward reducing Tee that I needed for making my sidearm burnerds. They had a nice website with lots of information, but it was a lot more impersonal ordering through their automated website, and my stuff should arrive tommorrow a little over a week since I placed my order, (which is probably a little slower than their normal shipping;-( if I would have paid the rush shipping it would have been here already but who wants to pay twice or three times the cost of standard shipping;-) I would order from both suppliers again, and likely will. If you order burner flares, and you can get them drilled and tap for a couple of bucks more go ahead and do it, unless you are set up and tapping is no big deal... I just spent more time than I cared to drilling and countersinking and tapping the burner flares and burner mounting tubes for my forge. Christian Husband Father Blacksmith Farrier Farmer fairly tired;-)

I would have to suspect that it would wear out in short order. Since they tend to wear out on cars, and a air hammer would beat that joint up a lot worse than a car on potholes. Then there is the issue of what does a catastrophic failure look like in your hammer? versus the ball joint going bad on your car... things to consider;-)

Small mechanical hammers often ran in the 400 BPM range, and for drawing material hard and fast there is nothing better. My impression has been that mechanical hammers have a slightly steeper learning curve, its harder to get the feel for the hammer, and develop the proper 'touch' to get the best results out of the hammer however well behaved someone tells you the hammer is... The utility or self-contained hammers I have used were much easier to get a feel for, and get what I wanted out of. They didn't hit as hard as a mechanical of a comparable size, or as fast, but I could handle them without the hammer eating my lunch;-) I prefer to use tooling under an air hammer. Christian Husband Father Blacksmith Farrier farmer free time, is that like disposable income??? ;-)

If I remember correctly a guy in the IBA has a 750# Nile-Bement-Pond, and on that hammer it says what size it is cast into the frame. Lovely hammer:-) Again I will remind folks so they can put it on their calendar the Indiana Blacksmiths Association's Annual Conference will be the LAST weekend in JUNE. Clifton Ralph, Kurt Farenbach, and Steve Parker will be demonstrating on a 400# Chambersburg running on STEAM. All three are excellent industrial blacksmiths, Clifton worked in the steel mills in Gary, IN. Kurt worked for Chrysler and has run production runs on tongs and other tools out of his shop in Atlanta, IN. Steve Parker works making tongs on a Nazel 4B? for several Hydraulic forging plants. They put on a good demo, Clifton will bring piles of tooling and fixtures for showing how to get the most of out your hammer. Steve will do a demo atleast on forging tongs. They might forge an small anvil or bick? I don't know what is really on the schedule, but I have seen them demo before and it is worth the trip... Christian Husband Father Blacksmith Farrier Farmer and boy am I tired;-)

Ric Most people can't run a big enough compressor on the juice going to their shop, which is why the DEISEL screw compressors are so popular for making the switch from steam to air. It seems like if you don't already have 3phase to your shop, it is econmicly impractical to get it there in this day and age... What is funny is that when we were talking to the electric company about the sevice drop to the new house and shop, it was going to be 1500$ to bury a 200amp line, but when I asked about a 400amp they said they would do that for free... I hope that they don't recoup their money too fast;-) I have seen the screw compressors on running gear for as cheap as 500$, it's easier to find the ones big enough to really supply plenty of air starting in the 1500-2000 range used, but if you keep an eye open for a deal, you can snap it up. Some of the old steam hammers seem to be designed to run on pretty low pressure just a lot of volume. A guy I know had a 250# eire one peice hammer that he ran on 30PSI, he had a 2" line feeding it, but the pressure was cranked way low. He ran his 400# Chambersburg two piece hammer on about 90PSI on a 2" line. He had a little old ~100CFM screw outside hooked to an 800-1000 gallon reciever with a 2" pipe leading to the regulator, it was a nice setup you had to go after it pretty hard to bury the compressor. I nearly died when I heard that 400# C had sold at auction for only 3500$ I loved that hammer, and will miss it greatly and often... ;-) Christian Husband Father Blacksmith Farrier Farmer is there time for anything else???

They are nice if someone else is paying for the gas;-) They are hogs, and not terribly efficient, BUT if you are feeding a good sized power hammer, they are pretty nice. Not super hot, but useful in the right situation. Johnson sells an adapter, to change the orifice from NG to LP, its 60$, or you can silver solder over the NG orifice and then drill it out smaller cause the LP is almost always at a much higher pressure. Most people who have them almost never use them, unless they are doing some production forging with a goodsized hammer, or pre-heat, postheat on welds...

For a pierced hawk you will be surprised just how short a piece you need to use. I would expect to get atleast 3 hawks out of a 1' piece, and would probably try to do it with just 3" of stock intially, unless I was going to do a back spike or hammerpoled. You don't want to start with too much, especially if you're just getting your hammer hand back in shape, believe me;-) I did a few hawks like this for Christmas presents, and ended up cuting off part of the bit cause I had to much stock..;-) I used some disc axil, almost always medium/high carbon, a bear to forge, but oil quenches nice, and it generally is ~1 1/8" square with slightly rounded corners, lots of volume;-) Christian Husband Father Blacksmith Farrier Farmer And the rest really does get in the way... ;-)

Dillon have you seen the Lillico book. It gives you an idea of how they used to block out big forgings with an open die steam hammer. It is illuminating. It gives you a nice appreciation for volume. Have you seen the Clifton Ralph power hammer videos? You can also get videos cheap from UMBA and they have Clifton, Kurt Ferrenbach, and Steve Parker demoing at an IBA Conference. That particular video shows you some interesting bits of "Furniture" to get you the angles to get certain blows, not to mention setting up for doing bending on a hammer. This year the last weekend in June, Clifton and Kurt will be demoing on a 400# Chambesburg run on Steam! should be a good show Tipton, Indiana a short drive North of Indianapolis;-) Christian Husband Father Blacksmith Farrier Farmer The rest just gets in the way... ;-)

Traditionally most people call hay rake teeth 1095... So very high carbon steel, you should oil harden, and be careful it is a little hot short. If you get too high into the yellow it will turn to cottage cheese. Its good for knives, woodworking tools, and mixing in to patternwelding damascus. Christian Husband Father Blacksmith Farrier Farmer The rest just gets in the way...

And unless it is an old farries rasp it actually isn't great steel. A freind of mine was talking to a Simonds rep and he rattled off the steels that the modern manufactures are using and they vary from Bellota at the high end 1035, and I think the bottom end is around 1018-1010. Too high a carbon content and the rasp will snap when you wack a horse on the butt;-) And it is often a good idea to grind off some of the teeth near the edge (before forging ;-)to be sure there are no coldshuts, and water quench the steel. They do make nice farm knives, very durable, and easy to sharpen... ;-)

mistaken post, sorry. I was half asleep and clicked the button again...

It is always a question of what effect you are going for, and your hammer control. I have a horse shoers crosspein made by Chip Hunt. It is a nice little hammer with a long thin handle, but the round face has only a mild chamfer around the edge, and the face of the hammer is nearly flat. It is a VERY unforgiving hammer;-), but when I am tuned up and working a lot I can pick that hammer up and leave a nice flat slightly faceted surface. You modify your technic and your tools to get the affect you are going for, in that order;-) No sense butchering your tools, when just a bit more attention to detail, and better hammer control can do the job... I like using whatever hammer is going to give me the effect I want, I don't get consistant enough forge time to just use the edges of an 8# Hofi style club like Brian Brazeal can, wish I could;-) Christian Husband Father Blacksmith Farrier Farmer The rest just keeps getting in the way

Thanks:-) Great tip on setting up the VFD as a portable power source, and being able to use it on multiple pieces of equipment, makes great sense: their expensive, and your likely not using more than one piece of 3phase equipment at a time... I saw how you set it up on that portable base, and thought it was interesting. I will definitely be using that idea. My best freind just refitted his dual belt grinder settup to a 3hp 3phase with a VFD, I want to build a 2x72 like that, and I have a 3phase lathe that my father-in-law said can live in my shop once it is all enclosed;-) Ainght winter forging great;-) cooking one side while you feet and backside freeze, and the "joy" of reaching for a tool off the rack that is the same temp as the south pole. Yep I understand compeletly;-) Christian Husband Father Blacksmith Farrier Farmer the rest just keeps getting in the way;-)

Quick advice on hammer control. It is ALWAYS easier to learn to do something right the first time, than it is to retrain yourself later when there is a problem. A small hammer to start with is safer, even if you work as a framer on a construction crew, blacksmithing is different and will strain different muscles. A heavier hammer will fatgiue you quicker, and you will be more likely to compensate and modify your hammer technique negatively. Start with small simple projects, out of smaller stock, that is suited to a smaller hammer. Let the hammer do the work! This sounds simple but is profound. You do not drive the hammer all the way to the steel and push the steel the direction you want it to go by sheer force of your muscle and will. You accelerate the hammer at your choosen target, and then lightly grasp the handle as the hammer makes contact and deforms the steel. A tight grip on the hammer is generally BAD, all of the shock of impact goes into your joints, which will eventually catch up with you. There are of course exceptions to this rule, but as a general rule it is sound. Lightly grasp the hammer. If you can read about, or be shown the Hofi ergonomic style of hammering it is a good style that will serve you well over the long run. There are other perfectly valid and useful styles, and recommending Hofi's style takes nothing away from them. I am trying to retrain myself to use the Hofi style more often, but teaching an old dog new tricks is hard;-) Any system that teaches you to take a light grip on the hammer and use the length of the stroke and the speed of the hammer head to good advantage is going to be fine. The amount of energy hiding in the hammer is described by KE=1/2M x V2. So within reason and physical limits the mass of the hammer is half as important as how fast it is going when it hits the metal. You get more bang for your buck with swinging faster. As the size of stock you are working goes up, the weight of the hammer you are using must go up too. Blows from a small hammer will tend to penatrate less deeply than those of a heavier hammer, the heavier hammer having more momentium (mass x velocity). So peining a rivet is best done with a small hammer, and forging 4" round with a 500#< power hammer;-) For a beginner 1/2 stock is going to be heavy stock, and about as much as you want to try forging with a 2# hammer. There are no short cuts in life, if you are lucky you can find someone who can guide you to one of the shorter paths, but nobody get to the good stuff without a lot of hard work... Christian Husband Father Blacksmith Farrier Farmer the rest just keeps getting in the way;-)