Dillon Sculpture Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Rail for sale! Get your rails here! Rail for sale!Yellinn Rail.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 some one on here has a quote about a golf course being a waste of a shooting range,(how does that go?) some one can build a house around that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Should go to a museum so we all can visit it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Thomas you got that right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 The best part is the rail is not up to current building codes. It will have to be modified to be reused if it is within the united states. I live near there and know the company who is selling it. I would love to be in the room when the buyer finds out it is basically unusable as a stair rail if it is removed form its current location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 That's a shame that it is being taken out, but hey what's a little code among friends. Something like this should be in the Metropolitan Museum of Art at the least or next best in Ornament Metal Museum. Several years ago I was visiting Lexington, Kentucky and as I was driving about I saw this wonderful old house that dated to before the Civil War. Yes it was being converted to a club house for a golf community and all of these old architectural items were being thrown in a trash pile. If I hadn't been flying back I would have had a lot of wrought iron in the back of my truck along with marble fireplace surrounds and big chunks of wood that are near impossible to find in the west. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 My question is why are they removing it? What aspects of it do not meet code? Opening sizes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Most likely the opening sizes. A 4" sphere may not pass threw the rail at any point, The run and rise of the stare must conform to current codes. It will need to be 36" high at any point where the potential drop is over 36" or something like that. Also the cap rail must not be have a perimeter of over a certain size can't remember what though. this is just off the top of my head. And the person buying must build a stair to match it. I should contact them and find if they need anyone to reinstall it and make the necessary modifications. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Mass has 5" sphere for residential, four inch for comercial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 well if it goes to mass It might pass. I forgot to mention that there also is the 6" sphere rule where a 6" sphere may not pass under the bottom rail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 You could neatly fix plexiglass to it as is to solve gap problems, sacrilige to alter/spoil it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 I was wondering if the wood stair also comes with it? I did a job outside of Atlanta that was nabbed for the "Ladder effect" they proceeded to dress it with chicken wire for the inspector visit, it was passed and the wire was taken off. It always gives me a chuckle to think about a $250,000.00 dollar chicken fence in that $40 million dollar house. I just wish I would have got some pictures with the wire. http://www.luxist.com/2008/03/23/la-reve-estate-of-the-day/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I was wondering if the wood stair also comes with it? I did a job outside of Atlanta that was nabbed for the "Ladder effect" they proceeded to dress it with chicken wire for the inspector visit, it was passed and the wire was taken off. It always gives me a chuckle to think about a $250,000.00 dollar chicken fence in that $40 million dollar house. I just wish I would have got some pictures with the wire. http://www.luxist.com/2008/03/23/la-reve-estate-of-the-day/ As far as I know In most parts of the country they have backed down from the "ladder effect" for the exception of pool enclosures. Largely due to the efforts of NOMA. There was some testing done where it was proven that almost all railings were climbable even glass panel rails. In addition there was a review of accidents from hospital records where people had climbed over rails and fallen. The results were that It had happened only in 2 or 3 incidents. To the push for that requirement was largely abandoned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 My experience is the building code only applies us to poor people, people with money will find a work around... I worked on a job ( not doing the railing) where a fake railing was build out of wood and was used to pass inspection, which was promptly removed and the real railing replaced after finals where done.. The owner/builder/designer was a big shot architect and the railing was basically a floating bar above a floating stair... super cool, but in no way shape or kind legal.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Rail for sale! Get your rails here! Rail for sale! Just curious what some of you think about the price? Not considering its a historical Yellin peice Just about the dollars and the work? I dont have any experiences with THAT big of job, that railing is more than a years gross for me.... But I don't think I could build it in a year either My guess is that it will sell but it wont go in a residence, It will go to some mega resort like a sandals or the Grand Mariner somewhere in the tropics And really I would say its a reasonable price. That is a lot of hours by a pretty big group of very skilled smiths.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Just curious what some of you think about the price? Not considering its a historical Yellin peice Just about the dollars and the work? I dont have any experiences with THAT big of job, that railing is more than a years gross for me.... But I don't think I could build it in a year either My guess is that it will sell but it wont go in a residence, It will go to some mega resort like a sandals or the Grand Mariner somewhere in the tropics And really I would say its a reasonable price. That is a lot of hours by a pretty big group of very skilled smiths.... I would say the price is about right for replacement. Biased on some other similar work I have seen done around here, If done using traditional technique. It it were MIG welded and water jet cut and looked about %75 right. I would knock off about %40. Up here in NY there a hand full of shops are doing Yellin quality work. Meaning well designed, Mortis and tennon, rivets, collars and repousse forge welding etc. I aspire to get into this market it is kind of like being allowed eat at the grown up table. These shops keep a low profile out side of marketing to there clients. You will never see a demo at one of there shops or will be invited for a shop tour. The builders and architects want this kind of work are a hard group to impress and have close long standing relationships with their metalworkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 As far as I know In most parts of the country they have backed down from the "ladder effect" for the exception of pool enclosures. Largely due to the efforts of NOMA. There was some testing done where it was proven that almost all railings were climbable even glass panel rails. In addition there was a review of accidents from hospital records where people had climbed over rails and fallen. The results were that It had happened only in 2 or 3 incidents. To the push for that requirement was largely abandoned. Yea, I was pretty surprised when it went down myself (my hart stopped) After installing 200' foot of rail it was way past an easy fix. I think they really didn't know what to do with the project because of its size, dollar value and the person building it. You know that inspector got the same $20,000 a year if he passed it or not. I believe somebody on the job just pissed him off. Just curious what some of you think about the price? Not considering its a historical Yellin peice Just about the dollars and the work? I dont have any experiences with THAT big of job, that railing is more than a years gross for me.... But I don't think I could build it in a year either My guess is that it will sell but it wont go in a residence, It will go to some mega resort like a sandals or the Grand Mariner somewhere in the tropics And really I would say its a reasonable price. That is a lot of hours by a pretty big group of very skilled smiths.... Personally I would charge double. I'm sure LMC would. I was up against LMC and a frenchman for a 100' of rail for those kinds of numbers, lost it to a frenchman, he got almost double. We did the outdoor work and the client said they wished they would have pick us instead, oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 MonsterMetal, You're right on about folk with money. When I was doing HVAC, plumbing and fire protection design on one house there were two sets of railing and banisters, one set for final inspection and one set for installation after letter of occupancy. The first set was your basic Home Depot pool fencing and the second set was a hand forged set that in no way conformed to code except in height. It pays to be rich, I could never have afforded two sets of hardware to get around meeting code, for me one of any thing is tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I was up against LMC and a frenchman for a 100' of rail for those kinds of numbers, lost it to a frenchman, he got almost double. We did the outdoor work and the client said they wished they would have pick us instead, oh well. And that 'sample' is a copy of an old French design, got the book it was in somewhere, but the leafwork looked better made in the book. So much for originalty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 About 90% of what I build is of my design and I take great pride in having a unique and individual style. In this case I was asked to build a design picked by the architect and client. If they would have asked me to design it I'm sure it would have been extraordinary instead of just a copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Yea, I was pretty surprised when it went down myself (my hart stopped) After installing 200' foot of rail it was way past an easy fix. I think they really didn't know what to do with the project because of its size, dollar value and the person building it. You know that inspector got the same $20,000 a year if he passed it or not. I believe somebody on the job just pissed him off. Personally I would charge double. I'm sure LMC would. I was up against LMC and a frenchman for a 100' of rail for those kinds of numbers, lost it to a frenchman, he got almost double. We did the outdoor work and the client said they wished they would have pick us instead, oh well. LMC charges what they want because they can. Can you say that you worked on the statue of liberty? They often are awarded contracts for twice what the competition is charging. They know what they are doing and know how traditional ironwork should look. I have seen a bit of there work around NY and everything is done right or at least it looks that way both technically and ascetically. They also wine and dine architects builders and home owners to get work. They once held a sailing regatta for their customers where they gave away a trophy that they had made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 About 90% of what I build is of my design and I take great pride in having a unique and individual style. In this case I was asked to build a design picked by the architect and client. If they would have asked me to design it I'm sure it would have been extraordinary instead of just a copy. There you go, same picture. I agree entirely with you, Its more acceptable to me if they say "similar to" or "Based on" this design The only exception being restoration work, or an extension/alteration of the original. Many years ago I had a client who brought in a piece of ironwork from Samual Pitts House in Hanover Street in London nwhich had been removed from there in the early part of the 20th century, he wanted it refurbishing, and altering to fit into a new location, then I was fine with making the extra to the original design. At the end of the day it's a personal choice, and its easier when you are in the position of being able to pick and choose your workload. So long as you are true to yourself, and sleep OK at night I also qute the phrase "Individuality is my Speciality" and ask "Why have a copy when you can have an original?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted February 11, 2010 Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 LMC charges what they want because they can. Can you say that you worked on the statue of liberty? They often are awarded contracts for twice what the competition is charging. They know what they are doing and know how traditional ironwork should look. I have seen a bit of there work around NY and everything is done right or at least it looks that way both technically and ascetically. They also wine and dine architects builders and home owners to get work. They once held a sailing regatta for their customers where they gave away a trophy that they had made. I feel lucky to show my work side by side with the craftsmen on the job, I did 14 4' balconies and three larger ones. Door #5 is surrounded by LMC beautiful work, I do feel I hold my own. The client spared no expense to render this condo into a perfect chalet of French inspiration, hand painted and gilt to the T. The true friends that I made wile pursuing my craft I do usually try to make them something small and personal. Don’t like boats. I think the Yellin rail to be worth well over a million for what looks to be about 150 linear feet of rail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted February 11, 2010 Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 There you go, same picture. I agree entirely with you, Its more acceptable to me if they say "similar to" or "Based on" this design The only exception being restoration work, or an extension/alteration of the original. Many years ago I had a client who brought in a piece of ironwork from Samual Pitts House in Hanover Street in London nwhich had been removed from there in the early part of the 20th century, he wanted it refurbishing, and altering to fit into a new location, then I was fine with making the extra to the original design. At the end of the day it's a personal choice, and its easier when you are in the position of being able to pick and choose your workload. So long as you are true to yourself, and sleep OK at night I also qute the phrase "Individuality is my Speciality" and ask "Why have a copy when you can have an original?" I'm not sure where it is pictured the same? Maybe you should say what you feel is more “acceptable” I do struggle with what I am asked to do and what I feel is my full potential as a metalworker but in the end I will make it creatively fulfilling. I am always increasing the amount of work I do that originates from my vision but it has always been difficult. My family and the people who work for me do appreciate my ability to work at the level shown, even if it represents a historic reference. I wonder how many of the exceptional craftsmen in the past designed, built and sold their work? Interesting to know if whoever drafted the Louis XV picture actually worked metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Your right it is over 150 ft of rail I was way off base on that. Kind of had my head in the clouds today. But still there is most likely a lot of work needed to retrofit the rail to a new location and have it pass code. You can have a lot of money and fudge things after the fact with code. But lets say some one gets hurt after the fact and sues the home owner and you. Do you think the insurance company is going to cover you when you willfully and with full knowledge built something that was not up to code. How is the home owners insurance company going to react when they found out the rail was installed after an inspection to avoid code issues on the home owners instructions. I see a very expensive and long law suite. I have heard a lot of stories but for the most part I have found inspectors to be on the up and up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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