Gladius from leaf spring. Possible?

[Chris Waldon]

A friend of mine would like to try to make a roman gladius from a leaf spring. I know that the kind of metal used is inconsistent, but generally has the same over-arching properties: durable and flexible.
My question is this:
Would a leaf spring provide suitable metal for a gladius?
My main concern is simply that it would end up SO much thinner than how it started. I'm just not sure how much of it's original durability it would retain.
Any questions or advice is welcome. This would be my first sword, but we're doing it more for the experience of making it than because we expect it to turn out spectacular. Thank you.

[Sam Salvati]

Possible? Yes. Probable? No.

Your concern about it ending up thinner and therefore weaker shows me you have little to no understanding of actual sword geometries, and I think you would probably end up with a sword shaped crowbar that cuts very poorly.

[dablacksmith]

by forgeing you can make a gladius from a leaf spring. now proper shape will take work and you will have to harden and temper it after. it sounds like you are new to this so i would reccomend some books on knife makeing and sword makeing .its not inpossable to end up with a good sword from that material but it will take skill and time to make.... there are so many things that can go wrong that i would reccomend starting with knives . forge a few knives and practice hardening, tempering,grinding,firring guard, fitting handle, fitting pommel,ect.good luck

[ThomasPowers]

"Play it again Sam"! Western european swords tend to be quite thin, most leafsprings I have worked with would tale a lot of hammering to get it thin enough!

If you have no forging skills in blademaking I would look at doing a stock removal version to start and starting with a piece of 1/4" thick steel.

[Mark Wargo New2bs]

It is possible. It might be probable depending on the level of smithing skill of the person doing it and those helping/advising. leaf springs vary considerably in their starting dimensions. The type of leaf spring you start with will determine the physical difficulty of getting the final shape right. I have leaf springs that are thick bars of basically straight stock, some that are thick bars of stock shaped like an hour glass, and some that are 1.75 inches wide by .25 inches thick and already have the edges beveled. I would think that turning any one of them into a functional sword is going to be quite a task, but that latter seems intuitively more likely to lead to success in that it will require less moving of material to arrive at the final shape. However, arriving at that shape is easy to say, hard to do. Talking about making a knife is easy, convincing the metal to do what you want it to do is the more difficult thing. If you haven't made a knife, give it a shot and see how it turns out. Experience the fullness of the frustration. Determine if you want the vastly increased frustration of trying to get a whole sword's worth of metal to do what you want it to. All of this is my two cents worth and I'm a rookie blacksmith (if I can even refer to myself as that) who has only researched a bit of knife making and sword making. I've roughly made a few rail road spike knives.

[Chris Waldon]

I'm sorry that I didn't include a experience background on my post. I have already made and tempered several knives, with varying degrees of success, but you are right when you say I know nothing of sword geometry. This is just a project for fun between two friends.

[Sam Salvati]

This is just a project for fun between two friends.

Then by all means, heat and forge it until it looks like what you want it to look like.

[Ed Steinkirchner]

the way i would go into making a gladius from a spring leaf would greatly depend on what size that leaf spring of yours is. i have a very old bunch from the 30's or 40's and when they ary made into knives, i can air harden them in winter. But i have a more recent set that takes water.as for the spring's shape for sword stock, there is usually a very annoying hole or holes in the middle, so length can be limited.
OH, by the way, are we talking about a leaf bladed sword or parallel edged sword. because i've made a leaf blade spatha and it was 3/16" thick, or maybe less. most swords and knives are way too thick, even my khukri is 5/32" thick, and it has hacked through a 4" grapevine with no problems whatsoever.
swords from the age of the romans were not too long because of the limits imposed by the steel. some were found to have bad welds, slag and sand inclusions, and other such problems, so i don't think a leaf spring wouls be that bad.but that's just me.

[Akad]

I say, yes, it is both possible AND probable. I know this.
My brother's first sword he made was a gladius-type sword, made from a leaf spring. However, I will mention that during the process, he had a lot of help and instruction from an experienced black/blade smith and he still ended up losing several inches due to a crack in the steel. (NOTE: I'm not saying blade and blacksmiths are the same, I'm saying this guy did both)

But any way, it's only possible if he has the ways and means to make it, as well as the knowledge to do so. If you don't have a forge, You may want to consider just cutting, grinding, and sanding stuff down (Is that called stock removal? Can't remember...)

Just remember, if it's a leaf spring, it's a dubious metal. It's orignal intention was not to make a blade. My brother's sword was decent, not good by any means. It holds an edge and looks really cool, but it's a bit heavy and I doubt it's the most durable leaf spring sword out there. But if this doesn't matter much, and you're just doing it for the experience, fun, and to make something cool, then by all means, go for it! Good luck.

[reefera4m]

Leaf spring steel can be made into an excellant sword. 5160 is the most common steel used for leaf springs, particularly in older US built cars. It can be a bear to forge, it gets its hardness not only from the carbon but the chromium that is used (.6 carbon/.8 chromium approx). 'It exhibits excellent toughness and high ductility, with a high tensile-yield ratio' (property data sheet). Properly forged and heat treated it will hold an edge yet retain some flexibility. According to Ed Caffrey, 'The Montana Bladesmith', more people have passed the ABS journeyman test with this steel than any other. The test is: chop a 2x4 in half, cut a free-hanging 1" manila or sisal rope with one slice, then shave hair using the area of the blade that was used in chopping/slicing and finally bend 90 degrees without breaking. Sounds a lot like the properties that would make a good sword.

This steel really needs to be annealed to be workable, particularly for a sword lenght blade. Heat the blade to critical, hold for at least 5 minutes and then immediately place in a large tub of vermiculite or wood ash (wood ash will if dry but vermiculite is MUCH cleaner). The intent it to cool the steel SLOWLY. This assumes you don't have access to a oven capable of progressive heat reduction - if you do then the process is slightly different.

Another key I've found when using leaf springs is the level of finish before heat treating. The fewer defects in the blade, i.e. deep scratches, hammer marks, nicks, coarse grinding/file marks, etc., the less likely the blade will fracture/crack during the quench. I finish blades to at least 400 grit to eliminate these type stress points.

Finally, you can bring out a mirror finish with this steel - with a lot of work and 800/1000 grit sandpaper or you can sand it to 400 grit and it will still look great!

[Sceptis]

I my self use Leaf-spring for practice. As Sam Salvati said, "Possible, yes. Probable, no." The inconsistencies caused by wear in the metal (they are bouncing under a car for years at a time usually, which causes stress/weak points throughout the piece) makes them fical to forge. Heat treating them has tendency to end badly too. Cracks are common, even in "softer" Processes, such as oil quench.

You *CAN* get a decent blade out of choice pieces, but the probability is not so great. They tend to be overly brittle in spots, so be careful what you strike with it. You may get a decent bush-crafters "chopper," but nothing that can withstand sustained metal-on-metal contact. Regardless, have fun with it. I've made several blades out of leaf-spring using all kinds of methods, with varying degrees of success. It can be done... just don't be surprised if it doesn't work.

5160 is a great medium, but second hand pieces from scraped cars are not-so great, for afore mentioned reasons.

Good luck. :)

[pkrankow]

5160 is a great medium, but second hand pieces from scraped cars are not-so great, for afore mentioned reasons.

You could fold it a few times. Been done by others, a la zombie bane!
Phil

[nonjic]

Im sure it would make a fantastic sword! If I was doing it from an old spring I would give it a good work with an angle grinder firstly, to check for any visible cracks, then a couple of passes at a welding heat with a bit of borax come forging time, cant see why any micro cracks in the steel wouldnt weld back up. Your going to have to normalise it a couple of times if you do this (well, you should do this anyway!)

My experience with swords so far, is ive ended up with dozens of hours work in them (mostly in the finishing though), Unless your absolutley potless I would spend $20 at the start of the project and buy a new piece of spring steel. This will give you a guaranteed metallurgy of the steel come heat treat time aswell!

have fun with it, even if the blade fails at any point in its making you will still learn a heck of a lot from having a go :D

[RichardT]

Unless your absolutley potless I would spend $20 at the start of the project and buy a new piece of spring steel.

As this is a hobby for me and it's hard to justify buying everything I want, I'm always on the lookout for cost effective solutions. I found that my local car sports suspension shop regularly takes brand new springs out of brand new cars to upgrade them to lowered and/or stiffened custom jobs. The manufacturers originals (still with the stickers on sometimes) go straight to the scrap bin.

When I asked if he had any old springs I could have, he said "Help yourself to whatever's in the bin". I managed to only take a sensible amount (two matched pairs of sets of leaf springs and four differing thicknesses of coils) on the basis that he'll still be there when I've used it up.

Hope this helps some of you amateurs.

[nonjic]

Fantastic scrounging! Making a blade from a new leaf spring is a much nicer proposition than making one from a rusty 40 year old piece of unknown steel!

Go for it, you will have fun

Its a big job finishing up a sword but if thats what sparks your enthusiasm go for it I say!! If it doesnt come out quite right you can allways try again in the future.