darton Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 hi all now where i work ican get a fair bit of brass scrap so just wanted to know if ican make blades out of it and if i can could i do damacus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Brass letter openers, yes. Damascus knives, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Brass and bronze are pretty muddled now. If it is actually a bronze, yes, as there were bronze knives, and swords made during the bronze age. Won't hold an edge like a steel knife. Now, I have access to some beryllium copper, and that will get pretty hard when heat treated. BeCU is used for all manner of tools where non sparking is required IE; around explosive atmospheres. Depending on the size, and shape, a lot of knife parts like guards could be made from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RassilonMonk Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Brass is too soft. That said if you can get decent scrap take what you can and use it for bolsters, spacers and other handle material. -W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Hello: Actually you CAN make a knife out of brass but you will need to cold work it and even then, it will not get very hard but it will be sharp enough to cut for a little while. You really need to know what you are doing cold working or else you can crack the material if you aren't paying attention. The first metal implements were copper then various bronzes then iron and then steel..now they are going back to "rocks" (with the ceramics) but you can make a knife out of brass but why? Novetly? Just because? If so..go for it...Have fun doing it...it will be different but don not expect a decent edge that will last... JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darton Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 thanks it was only going to be 4 show sould have said that frist i am go to use it for handels and stuff its 5mm thick i was going to try and cast it but not sure what to melt it in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Note that grinding BeCu, beryllium copper, can result in your death. If you want to make non-ferrous "damascus" look into Mokume which can even be done just using US sandwich quarters... A.G.Russel once flattened an Al beer can and honed it till it would shave. Didn't hold the edge long but it was sharp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Seems like we go through this Beryllium Copper thing every so often. It's bad enough to grind it but DO NOT MELT it! The fumes are bad stuff, much worse than grinding. Just leave it alone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 We machine 1,000's of pounds of BeCU a year. The Be is an inhalation hazard, so grinding, or other processes that produce dust need proper respiratory protection. Same would go for casting. What we do in the way of machining produces chips which are not considered a health hazard. If worked properly, any number of items can be made from it. To just say leave it alone is not really the right answer in my opinion. I would say before using it make sure that you have educated yourself fully on all hazards, and safety equipment needed. We use items every day that are hazardous, and some choose to willingly subject themselves to hazardous items like cigarettes in spite of the warnings. We fill our cars with gasoline, use propane grills, coal forges, natural gas appliances, all manner of chemicals, and other potentially very hazardous, or deadly items everyday. With proper PSE, and education we can, and do all of these things safely. We let children fill up a car, and don't give it a second thought. It would scare the crap out of a lot of folks if they ever read the MSDS on many common items. Some people are still killed because they mixed ammonia, and bleach. Brake fluid, and bleach will ignite when mixed. All of these are common household items, yet when used improperly can result in injuries, or death. Education keeps us alive, and healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 We machine 1,000's of pounds of BeCU a year. The Be is an inhalation hazard, so grinding, or other processes that produce dust need proper respiratory protection. Same would go for casting. What we do in the way of machining produces chips which are not considered a health hazard. If worked properly, any number of items can be made from it. To just say leave it alone is not really the right answer in my opinion. I would say before using it make sure that you have educated yourself fully on all hazards, and safety equipment needed. We use items every day that are hazardous, and some choose to willingly subject themselves to hazardous items like cigarettes in spite of the warnings. We fill our cars with gasoline, use propane grills, coal forges, natural gas appliances, all manner of chemicals, and other potentially very hazardous, or deadly items everyday. With proper PSE, and education we can, and do all of these things safely. We let children fill up a car, and don't give it a second thought. It would scare the crap out of a lot of folks if they ever read the MSDS on many common items. Some people are still killed because they mixed ammonia, and bleach. Brake fluid, and bleach will ignite when mixed. All of these are common household items, yet when used improperly can result in injuries, or death. Education keeps us alive, and healthy. I agree.... but rather than that I am just curious what you guys make out of BeCU? I have seen many tools and once a huge roots style blower made out of the stuff... Just curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 The company I work for makes high end electrical connectors , along with other high precision parts. When the company was in Vegas we were the largest Tornos Deco screwmachine shop in N. America with 60+ machines. It is now located in La Verkin UT. The company has made parts that are on the international space station, as well as the space shuttle. We also do fiber optic terminations, and recently did some that go on the F22 Raptor. We never know the final use of the vast majority of the parts we make. We just make parts for other people. We can turn up to 1" in diameter, but some stock we use is as small as .062". We make some parts with hole tolerances of .0002" that have to be held over tens of thousands of parts. The materials that we use mainly are copper, BeCU, brass, stainless, and some aluminum. Our bar ends would make nice material for rivets etc, they usually run around 7" long, and come in a variety of diameters of the various materials we use. I am the tool maker for the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darton Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 i have the right stuff protective gear just wanted to know because never melted metal on purpose anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddDuck Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 You already have the main piece of equipment if you have a forge. For small amounts of brass the only other thing you would need is a crucible, and that can be just a large black iron pipe nipple with a cap. I'm sure that's how blacksmiths did small brass parts in years gone by, your forge will definately get to those temps easily. As far as a mold material, for duh-simple try lost foam. Get some blue insulation board type foam, carve your bolster/guard/brass knife blank and attach a sprue to it with a bit of hot melt glue. Bury this in dry sand and pour the metal in the sprue. The metal vaporizes and displaces the foam, and voila, a cast piece. Easy peasy. Just be careful, before you know it you will have another hobby. I'm coming at this from the other way, I have been metalcasting and am trying to get started in blacksmithing, I think they will compliment each other nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darton Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 cheers oddduck what about fumes from the brass r they harmful to breath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Consider all fumes while casting as hazardous. Some more so than others. There are numerous books, and items on the web for home casters. Read up before undertaking this endeavor, as some information may be outdated, or contradictory. I have one book where the guy mentions breathing a cupolas worth of zinc fumes over the years with no ill effects. Personal safety equipment is cheap compared to hospital stays, and treatment, or a funeral. The foundry that I worked in had a fume hood right next to the crucible, and you could see the fumes getting pulled off. Be safe, and have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I see the problem being that a lot of us *know* how to work dangerous materials safely; but the people we are talking to may not. I never want to run up against someone saying "but you said it could be used" and having totally ignored the safety comments they are now working on leaving a widow and small kids and massive medical bills behind them. So I will not advocate using BeCu, what if the next guy to own the piece decides to re-grind it? Or their grandson? I will always warn about zinc fumes; besides Paw Paw I had a 19 year old student I warned about zinc and by the next year he had put himself in the hospital with metal fume fever---with no insurance BTW. I won't stop other folks from playing with fire; but I'd like them to do it as safely as possible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I agree with Thomas. I came to blacksmithing through metal casting like you,why waste all the heat? There are safer brass/bronze alloys out there than the ones containing Beryllium. My question is why not advocate their use rather than something that has a greater potential for harm like a Beryllium/Copper alloy? Yes it can be used but why take an uncalled for risk when it can be avoided. If you want to use it that is up to you but I don't think that you should advocate others to follow suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddDuck Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 (edited) Darton, for run of the mill got-it-at-a-yard-sale-from-India brass (which is pretty much what I use) the major concern will be zinc, if you badly overheat it. Large amounts of white smoke will be produced and if inhaled can (if you are silly enough to stand in the plume and continuously breathe it) can cause a condition known as "zinc-fume fever", the symptoms are similar to a mild case of the flu, fever, chills, and just a general crappy feeling. This is temporary, and goes away in a day or so. If you get it,******************. I can't speak from personal experience, I have never had it, and I have had the lovely column of dense white smoke erupting from my furnace on more than a few occasions. Keeping an eye on things and a cover flux of either charcoal or borax will help. If you are really worried, get some non-zinc bearing silicon bronze, such as Everdure or a similar alloy. I would still only do this with a lot of ventilation, I concur with the others that common sense and a few simple safety precautions, and a healthy respect for really hot stuff will serve you well. As far as BeCu, I'm not even sure where you could get it, I've seen the conversation come up a few times as well and I don't want to mess with it. Kind of why I use yellow decorative brass, looks good, casts reasonably well, and more or less known hazards. Edited December 15, 2009 by mod07 Dangeroujs Myth removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Milk is a myth, it will help some people with some symptoms, but it doesn't treat the problem. If you suspect that you have metal fume fever you go to the hospital and tell them that you have been exposed to large amounts of metal fumes including the various materials you have been heating. Shop Safety III : A Case Study : Zinc Metal Fume Fever - anvilfire iForge Demohttp://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f12/ppw-fume-fever-112/http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f35/zinc-1719/ Be safe. Last thing that needs to happen is someone getting themselves dead. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddDuck Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Pk, the milk was from what I had read on different sites, if I gave out bad info I apologise, I read through the links that you put up and it more or less concurs with the rest that I knew about it. Long and the short of it is like anything else related to hot metal, know your materials and the hazards associated with them, use proper techniques and equipment, and pay attention to what you are doing. Clean the surfaces before welding, don't overheat the melt, more than adequate ventilation, don't rub your eyes after picking habanero peppers, etc. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neddy Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Hi all. On the topic of brass - I am new to knife making - I thought aged brass looks cool so I bought a blank slab to have a crack at making a knife out of. I wasn’t going to attempt heat treating at this stage just shaping it as a bit of a fun project (I only have a few basic tools at home). Is the summary that I shouldn’t bother? And it’s hazardous to grind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Which of the several hundred alloys of brass did you buy? Does it contain any toxic materials in it? What gives you the idea that you can harden brass with heat treatment? Many brass alloys you heat to a dull red and quench in water to SOFTEN it? What do you want to use the blade for? Copper/Tin Bronze was once used as a common blade material; it even has around the same hardness as mild wrought iron if handled right; but once they learned to harden steel it dropped out of favour quickly as steel will get very much harder than bronze will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neddy Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 The listing says - “Brass Flat Bar - Grade C380 / C385 at 300mm long” - it doesn’t say anything about the materials within the alloy. Maybe i’d Have to contact the manufacturer. The purpose is really just for practice, to be ornamental and not necessarily functional as I’m just learning / teaching myself. I suppose purchasing an unsuitable material can just go down as a lesson learned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 a simple search turned up this at online metals: C385 BRASS/ARCHITECTURAL BRONZE CHEMICAL AND MECHANICAL PROPERTIES Melting Point 1610° F – 877° C Chemistry Copper (Cu) – 55-59% Iron (Fe) – 0.35% Lead (Pb) – 2.5-3.5% Remainder – Zinc (Zn) Soldering – Excellent Brazing – Good Welding – Not recommended Lead helps the machinability properties of Brass, (see C360 Free Machining Brass for example); but is not generally a good element for things you will handle a lot and be careful of dust from grinding or buffing. Why not practice on the metal you hope to work with in the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neddy Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Might just do that. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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